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  1. #41
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I guess I can't really relate to where you're coming from Prot, living in a completely different part of the world as I do (although there are race issues here for sure). What I don't understand is: if it's such a nasty, hated word with so much nasty, hated history behind it, why use it at all? I don't hear jews going around calling each other subhuman (untermenschen), for instance, even though the holocaust and all that went with it had such a huge impact on the jewish consciousness.

  2. #42
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Whenever this topic arises, I always suggest the white person who invariably said it go to their nearest black people watering hole and just start saying "Hey niggers!" Commence with your questions. The key is you must say the offensive word to prove that you should be able to say it. If you don't say nigger, you won't experience the gamut of emotional ties and connections associated with the word. It's very important to this experiment that you experience the history associate with the word.
    I don't especially like that test. The whole issue here is the reaction black people have to white people using that word, and whether that reaction is something the speaker has to avoid, or the listener has to take responsibility for and examine. I get that you're trying to illustrate the emotional overtones the word carries, and the test is good for that, but it's not a good test to determine if one SHOULD be able to say it, only whether they CAN.

    I would never use the term that way because my good intentions wouldn't be clear to strangers. (I've never used it, either, but I've never really had a close black friend.)

    Notice I italicized you several times? Why did I do that? Because it's not about what you and your reaction to nigger. Why? Because nigger was never meant to be an offensive and derogatory towards you. You are not the intended target so you wouldn't know how it feels to have it's arrows pointed at you. So you trying to use your logic to justify why you should be able to say it it's like a fart-in-wind argument to me.
    I don't think one person's reaction really settles the issue either, though. It's like you talking to your partner and you suddenly say something that brings up a sore memory for them and they tell you that they're offended and you have no right to utter that combination of words. It's not that clear how to apportion responsibility in that case. The point isn't to say that romantic relationships and race relations are the same, but that being offended isn't always determinative.

    As much as people say race doesn't matter, it does. But we comfort ourselves by saying it doesn't because it's 2008 and being racist is so 1968 (only a scant 40 years ago!!), and we might be getting our first black president soon.
    Agree totally.

  3. #43
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Oy vey, Elizabeth is an idiot.

    And now she's crying, goodness gracious.

    That bitch was raised hella sheltered, i.e. surrounded by white people of the same SEC.

    :rolli:

    And of course she loved that abominable movie "Crash"
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  4. #44
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Whenever this topic arises, I always suggest the white person who invariably said it go to their nearest black people watering hole and just start saying "Hey niggers!" Commence with your questions. The key is you must say the offensive word to prove that you should be able to say it. If you don't say nigger, you won't experience the gamut of emotional ties and connections associated with the word. It's very important to this experiment that you experience the history associate with the word.

    If you can stammer out any words between your bloody, swollen lips (or if you even care to ask at that point) and if the answer is satisfactory to your logic, please report the answer back to MBTIc.
    Proteanmix, addressed your argument here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    as far as i can tell, the only reason it's "bad" is because society has given people the power to impart guilt for saying it.
    or, as you put it, a knuckle sandwich.

    im sure most people are aware of the ostensible reaction to the word... what hasnt been given, however, is a legitimate reason for such a reaction past society allowing it because they empathize with the minority/underdog.

    one might say "who are you to say that/you dont know what it's like", i cant help but think... who do you think you are to suggest that someone insulting you it's inherently worse than when they insult me? when i get insulted, i can get over it--hey, that guy called me X, he must think my face is ugly

    perhaps there is something im missing, but the reason i ask is because it seems strikingly familiar to a lot of other things society accepts as universal truth without a second thought.

  5. #45
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I've heard it used a ton where I went to school since the white population wasn't very large there...mostly by black and mexican people. The thing I found interesting was that it was horrible for a white person to say it, but perfectly fine for a mexican person to say it.

    But really, if I heard cracker or mick or something, I could really not give a shit. And I think that's precisely why people never said it. I think it's the supression of the word that gives it the power.

    With that said, you can't just tell someone to change the way they feel about something and have it actually happen.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #46
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I love Black Comedy, and if that word were to be miraculously stricken from the English language, I would be incredibly sad.

    Whenever I am with Black friends and they use it, it sooooooooooo doesn't bother me.

    Etymologically, the word "nigger" has evolved into quite a many of different things, especially within Black culture.

    PC-mongering idiots.

    Blah.

    Gay people call each other fags all the time.

    I can call my gay friends fags too, no biggie.

    What PC idiot fools need to realize, is that words have different meanings in different contexts.

    Jesus!!!

    The thought, or idea of getting rid of any word is RETARDED!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

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  7. #47
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I thought to myself, why do you even think you should be able to say nigger the way black people say it to one another? Why can't you just accept there are some things not for you? They are not meant for you and you need to be OK with that. It's the gall and presumptuousness of this attitude that bothers me. Why is it presumed that you should be able to say it? It seems like there's a lack of acknowledgment or a disregard of the inequity between the white person who thinks they should be able to say it and the black person they want to say it to. It like purposefully ignoring history and believing that it doesn't effect the present.
    The bolded part presupposes that there is, and continues to be, a race-based power hierarchy- that any given black person is from birth, regardless of circumstance, in a less privileged position within society than any given white person because of their genetic heritage (and the history associated with it). Not that I personally don't agree with you, but it can be argued that this isn't the case.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #48
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I love Black Comedy, and if that word were to be miraculously stricken from the English language, I would be incredibly sad.

    Whenever I am with Black friends and they use it, it sooooooooooo doesn't bother me.

    Etymologically, the word "nigger" has evolved into quite a many of different things, especially within Black culture.

    PC-mongering idiots.

    Blah.

    Gay people call each other fags all the time.

    I can call my gay friends fags too, no biggie.

    What PC idiot fools need to realize, is that words have different meanings in different contexts.

    Jesus!!!

    The thought, or idea of getting rid of any word is RETARDED!!!
    Such elegance and gentleness is sure to win over opponents.


  9. #49
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Lol,

    I'm not trying to win over "my opponents".

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #50
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    The thought, or idea of getting rid of any word is RETARDED!!!
    What about getting rid of one particular race's use of a word?

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