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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Victor is correct that England did transport bond slaves to the 13 colonies in North America before the revolution. For anyone who wants to look deeper into the issues why England needed to transport so many bond slave convicts to the 13 colonies or to Australia, a great book is Albion's Fatal Tree: Crime and Society in Eighteenth-Century England by E. P. Thompson et. al. It is a fascinating and easy to read book.
    This is quite right and a tribute to Heart's scholarship.

    And yes, I do accept your apology, CzeCze.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Re: Kales. Sorry, I already made a commitment to the Dutch.
    And I thought I could seduce you with Saint Crispin's Day.

    Still, my sister, Juliana, will be pleased as Julie is named after the Dutch Queen, Juliana.

  3. #263
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    I do like the name Crispin.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I do like the name Crispin.
    Then why don't you then call me, "Crispin" because I would like you to like me.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Then why don't you then call me, "Crispin" because I would like you to like me.
    I do not dislike you as Victor. I try to read what you post (like I do anyone else here) and get to know you, but I do not feel I know you well at all to make a decision if I like you or dislike you. You have lots of insight and some of your insights I have agreed with and some I have not agreed with, strongly at times and some of it been exasperated with. But then again I have never assumed your stronger polemics are the true you. And of course I may have misunderstood you or you me. Online communications are at times problematic as there is no body language or inflection and tone.

  6. #266
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    "He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever..."

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    It doesn't bother me if the black community wants to use it amongst themselves. They have the right to take the word back and attach a more positive connotation to it. Whites don't. The reason white people can't use it is because there is a huge historical stigma attached to the word as it was used by whites to denigrate and humiliate blacks. Whites can't wish that away, even if none of us are of the age where we would use it in that connotation. I have absolutely no desire to say it. I mean, I understand the principle of saying if it's a bad word, it's a bad word, but that just kind of seems like intellectualizing something that is a deeply emotional and hurtful issue. Sometimes you just have to accept things for the way they are.
    That's EXACTLY how I feel. It's just like when people make racial hate jokes or jokes about the Jewish Holocaust.. I just can't laugh at them. I don't understand how anyone can..

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I do not dislike you as Victor. I try to read what you post (like I do anyone else here) and get to know you, but I do not feel I know you well at all to make a decision if I like you or dislike you. You have lots of insight and some of your insights I have agreed with and some I have not agreed with, strongly at times and some of it been exasperated with. But then again I have never assumed your stronger polemics are the true you. And of course I may have misunderstood you or you me. Online communications are at times problematic as there is no body language or inflection and tone.
    Go on, throw your hat over the windmill.

    Forget about inflection and tone, ford the stream, cross the Rubicon.

    Take my hand and we will follow in the steps of Caesar and cross the Rubicon together.

    The time for calculation is over and it is easier to breathe on this side of the steam.

    And it is only a small creek - you can wade across - you will barely get wet.

    Come! Come! Come!

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Many did not have a choice, they stole out of desperation during the time of upheaval and social/economic changes due to enclosure and as stealing carried the death penalty, many were given the choice of transportation and took it. But to call such actions choices is a tough call. I would hesitate to say that they were all the dredges of society in the way we tend to think of that as being. If there's no place for you in the soceity to attain work, how shall you eat?

    btw Native Americans were basically being genocided in these times.

    A very harsh "Enlightenment" world.
    Then let me ask which would be easier hiding in the midst of people of the same race (unless marked in some way that was conspicuous) or hiding with dark skin?

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Then let me ask which would be easier hiding in the midst of people of the same race (unless marked in some way that was conspicuous) or hiding with dark skin?
    I am not understanding what the question has to do with situations in the 1700s and transportation to a penal colony. The question I was answering was not about "passing for white" in later times, it was about personal choice in relocating to the thriteen colonies.

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