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  1. #11
    WhoCares
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    Okay, read it. Yep thought as much. Two glaring,y obvious flaws in the otherwise entertaining comedy.

    Use of 'secure career' declined in the 80's onwards because so too did the security part of careers. A little thing called redundancy happened, a lot. As we all got slap happy with the technology and pc's entered people's homes and ATMS started appearing in walls and security went out the window. Corporations now had a new word 'expendable'. Why hire two people when you can fire five? Careers were no longer secure, they were mobile. I entered the workforce in the early 90's and even at that point there was no such thing as a secure career. You could get 5 maybe 10yrs tops in a company but the idea you can work there for the next 40yrs and climb the ladder had pretty much gone. The security of my career now depended upon me making strategic moves from one company to the next but I could never be sure how long I would be there. And as many middle managers discovered even 'making it' could see you on the end of a redundancy should a merger occur or the auditors move in. Maybe the writer hadn't lived through the 90's?

    Working hard will make you special - Sadly no it wont. If hard work was all that is required I'd be a CEO by now because jokes aside I can guarantee anyone who employed me in the past 20yrs certainly got their money's worth. Hard work just doesn't define the labour market anymore, mobility and price do. In the age of digital wonders anyone, anywhere in the world can do your job, and probably do it better than you (according to the things your employer cares about....aka labour units per $). Once upon a time (the late 80's, early 90's) a programmer in India couldnt snaffle your job out from under your nose because of geograhical proximity, language issues and the infancy of global networking. You didnt have to be the best programmer in the world, you just needed to be one of the best in your local area. Outsourcing changed your hard work ethic from a sure thing to a frustration. It doesnt really matter if you are good value for money for the local market or great at your job, if 5 people in Manila can do what you do for half the price you're redundant.

    Anyone who lived through the 00's and had a mobile phone can attest to the nosedive telco's performed in terms of customer service through automation and outsourcing. Where you could once just call the telco and have e problem fixed by someone with the same accent as you in 5mins, now you are lucky if you can even find a phone number to call. Most of the times its please fill in this web form and someone in Bangkok will get back to you in a week. If you dofind a numberits not ven a person anymore, its some telebanking-thingy that only allows you to pay your bill. Product, service and customers dont matter, only how cheap it is does.

  2. #12
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Anecdotally, one of the defining vibes of millennial culture is a disdain for entitled, special attitudes. Might just be my region, but I don't know anyone who would admit to feeling like Lucy - only people who ridicule her. Don't get caught flinching when the next support cracks. "Entitled" is a loaded word. But I think more people want to appear resigned to getting fucked than the number that actually has steeled themselves beneath the cynical veneer. @WhoCares and @iNtrovert's posts validate the needs that many 20 and 30-somethings hide to in order to look tough.

    Anyway. I could do what fulfills me alone, on a wall, with my own shit.
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  3. #13
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    Sorry, but my parents taught me to work hard, too. They in fact raised me the same way their parents raised them. So I disagree completely with the article.
    Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible... and then some.

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  4. #14
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    As a Gen Y'er. I will say, that this is true, for the most part of it. Thanks, it made my day.

  5. #15
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    These studies seem to imply that everyone comes from a suburban aerea either on the west or east coast of the USA.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #16
    WhoCares
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    The current generations (XY&Z) of workers in the workforce are facing an unprecedented devaluing if their labour, personal boundaries and time through technoligy advances and globalisation. Being on-call 24/7, being made to sing for your supper with facebook accounts just to get a job, having no bargaining power when negotiating your wage. Lucky if you get your contract renewed. The technology takeover is like another industrial revolution. The old ways just dont work anymore because the conditions that supported them are gone.

    In the age of mechanisation all we have left to sell is talent, you can't exchange time for a good wage anymore you have to be able to leverage your ideas instead. Entrepreneurship is the way forward now but It is a hellof a lot riskier than just getting a job. There's no guarantee of a paycheck at the end of the week even if you are talented and hardworking. College programs aren't teaching entrepreurship, they are teaching job skills. Young people have been sold the college dream by people for whom it worked, it no lomger works for anyone except the colleges collecting fees and the banks lending the money.

    To leverage ideas you need to be stupidly ambitous, risk-taking and make a play for big returns in a short space of time. Speed is of the essence. Which pretty much sums up where the current gen are At. Of course those skills are not going to translate well into the 'cog in the machine' scenario, thats not the scenario we will have to navigate moving forward.

    And here's my nostrdamus style prediction. Forget about getting a job, they will become low paying, low return investments in your time. Dont let a corporation own your ideas for the cost of a few hundred a week, you will be poor and redundant very soon. Possibly by the end of the decade.

  7. #17
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    The current generations (XY&Z) of workers in the workforce are facing an unprecedented devaluing if their labour, personal boundaries and time through technoligy advances and globalisation. Being on-call 24/7, being made to sing for your supper with facebook accounts just to get a job, having no bargaining power when negotiating your wage. Lucky if you get your contract renewed. The technology takeover is like another industrial revolution. The old ways just dont work anymore because the conditions that supported them are gone.

    In the age of mechanisation all we have left to sell is talent, you can't exchange time for a good wage anymore you have to be able to leverage your ideas instead. Entrepreneurship is the way forward now but It is a hellof a lot riskier than just getting a job. There's no guarantee of a paycheck at the end of the week even if you are talented and hardworking. College programs aren't teaching entrepreurship, they are teaching job skills. Young people have been sold the college dream by people for whom it worked, it no lomger works for anyone except the colleges collecting fees and the banks lending the money.

    To leverage ideas you need to be stupidly ambitous, risk-taking and make a play for big returns in a short space of time. Speed is of the essence. Which pretty much sums up where the current gen are At. Of course those skills are not going to translate well into the 'cog in the machine' scenario, thats not the scenario we will have to navigate moving forward.

    And here's my nostrdamus style prediction. Forget about getting a job, they will become low paying, low return investments in your time. Dont let a corporation own your ideas for the cost of a few hundred a week, you will be poor and redundant very soon. Possibly by the end of the decade.
    Then AI needs to think even better ideas and faster than us and then tell us how we should do things, when we thought we were going to sit back and relax. So we end up being shoved around like cattle.

    There is a 49 year old currently on our roof, shouting, screaming and threatening to jump. Oh well

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...lding-20140116

  8. #18
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Okay, read it. Yep thought as much. Two glaring,y obvious flaws in the otherwise entertaining comedy.

    Use of 'secure career' declined in the 80's onwards because so too did the security part of careers. A little thing called redundancy happened, a lot. As we all got slap happy with the technology and pc's entered people's homes and ATMS started appearing in walls and security went out the window. Corporations now had a new word 'expendable'. Why hire two people when you can fire five? Careers were no longer secure, they were mobile. I entered the workforce in the early 90's and even at that point there was no such thing as a secure career. You could get 5 maybe 10yrs tops in a company but the idea you can work there for the next 40yrs and climb the ladder had pretty much gone. The security of my career now depended upon me making strategic moves from one company to the next but I could never be sure how long I would be there. And as many middle managers discovered even 'making it' could see you on the end of a redundancy should a merger occur or the auditors move in. Maybe the writer hadn't lived through the 90's?

    Working hard will make you special - Sadly no it wont. If hard work was all that is required I'd be a CEO by now because jokes aside I can guarantee anyone who employed me in the past 20yrs certainly got their money's worth. Hard work just doesn't define the labour market anymore, mobility and price do. In the age of digital wonders anyone, anywhere in the world can do your job, and probably do it better than you (according to the things your employer cares about....aka labour units per $). Once upon a time (the late 80's, early 90's) a programmer in India couldnt snaffle your job out from under your nose because of geograhical proximity, language issues and the infancy of global networking. You didnt have to be the best programmer in the world, you just needed to be one of the best in your local area. Outsourcing changed your hard work ethic from a sure thing to a frustration. It doesnt really matter if you are good value for money for the local market or great at your job, if 5 people in Manila can do what you do for half the price you're redundant.

    Anyone who lived through the 00's and had a mobile phone can attest to the nosedive telco's performed in terms of customer service through automation and outsourcing. Where you could once just call the telco and have e problem fixed by someone with the same accent as you in 5mins, now you are lucky if you can even find a phone number to call. Most of the times its please fill in this web form and someone in Bangkok will get back to you in a week. If you dofind a numberits not ven a person anymore, its some telebanking-thingy that only allows you to pay your bill. Product, service and customers dont matter, only how cheap it is does.
    That's pretty good.

  9. #19
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    I actually read the article and while there is SOME truth to it...I would say these things were only true in the late 90's, early 2000's.

    I remember when I graduated high school in 2002, I immediately went into college because that was what you were supposed to do. That's what everyone told me to do. It was ingrained in me from the time I was little that THAT was the path to a successful life. My parents, my teachers, EVERYONE told me that I could be whatever I wanted to be, provided I went to school for it.

    So, I went to school to work in computers because that's what I liked doing.

    When I graduated college, I very quickly discovered that this pipe dream that I had been sold the better part of my life was a lie. I went to school so that I could only qualify for an entry level job and I also discovered that my schooling was almost useless. Going to school for computers does NOT prepare for the everyday job of troubleshooting and working on common computer problems. Oh sure, I knew how to assemble a motherboard, the history of DOS, what "CMOS" meant and other such interesting things but all of those generally have very little to do with figuring why a printer doesn't work or how to get a wireless adapter to connect to your wireless router.

    I am *****SO***** incredibly grateful and lucky that my parents and my Bright Futures Scholarship paid for schooling, and that I have no student loans or debts to pay off.

    I got out of the IT field because I realized I really didn't like having to help people twice my age figure out the most mundane of tasks on their computers when these people were expected to know all this shit in order to do their jobs. You wanna see entitled? Companies EVERYWHERE would save *billions* of dollars if their older generation workers knew how to ACTUALLY use a fucking computer.

    Now? I started working in the management side if things with my parents company and now I co-own the company with them and we're doing very well. But I look around and I see the members of my generation struggling with debt because they were sold a false bill of goods about "if you go to college, good things will happen".

    No they won't. They really friggin' won't. Unless you're going to school to specialize in a needed field, it's wasted money in my opinion.

    Some friends of my family just had their kids graduate high school and these kids are smarter than those who graduated at my time. They were immersed in the economy crash so they have no illusions, they know EXACTLY what is waiting for them. I told them once NOT to go to college until you have a damned good idea as to what it is you want to do. Why? Because college costs so freaking much you'll be paying for it for the rest of your life. So choose your investment wisely.

    I told them what they ought to do is get a job doing something -anything- in a field they like. Get an idea of what the day to day work is like and see if that's what you want to do.

    Once you find that job, then find a mentor and get him to show you the ropes. Offer to work unpaid or, even better, offer to PAY THEM to apprentice under them. I learned more from my IT supervisor (who it should be noted hasn't gone to college a day in his life) in 6 months working under him than I did the entirety of my schooling.

    I feel bad for kids these days. Fortunately they're smarter than my generation and they're wising up to the Great Big Lie that is higher education
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  10. #20
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    There's an unsustainable culture of debt going on. It's gonna implode eventually, and it will be ugly. People take so much for granted...

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