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  1. #81
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    I think the closest my old buddies and I would come to emotional disclosure was just a process of venting. We might vent about people, things, or whatever rubbed us the wrong way. I suppose it created a sense of solidarity - tribalism. Depth was lacking, though.

  2. #82
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    As we moved from the authoritarian world of print at the end of WW II and into the helping world of electronics, the Training Laboratory found a way to teach men and women how to relate to one another in an equal and open way. The training method was called the Encounter Group and is in use today.

    I was priviliged to attend an Encounter Group at the University of New South Wales and it openned up a whole new world of relating to me and everyone there.

    It is plain from the posts that learning to relate in a new way is only open to the elite, and the old, authoritarian way of relating is left for the rest.

    The rule is simple: if we want to learn, learn from the best.

  3. #83
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    Further example of female intrusiveness hahaha they just can't help themselves!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr59wELgFDo

  4. #84
    Member empertet's Avatar
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    I can get almost anyone to talk feelings with me in a few seconds of social interaction. If anything women tend to be more suspiscious and gaurded when talking about feelings (possibly due to previous openness resulting in being used), Men on the other hand (generally) have more simple emotions. "It is what it is".
    I offer understanding, help and basic human decency, in exchange all I ask is to be accepted.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    That's my answer: find more mature friends.
    Ain' that the truth?

    I've been in circle of men (young guys), and, boy, the first few times, it was quite the eye-opener for me. They fucking rival women in gossiping. Who fucked who, who is checking who out, who is worth checking out, who has some horribly embarrasing issue, and, what that horribly embarrasing issue is, is discussed/laughed at, in detail (if that person is on their mutual shit-list), who pissed who off, what should be done about it?

    Jeebus.

    But, yeah, as social animals, we have highly nuanced emotional cognition. Being emotionally constipated, cannot be healthy. Regardless of gender.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Giant View Post
    Yeah, it's yet another clueless article by a guy who thinks his absurd levels of privilege in society are wrongfully under attack, all the while making the argument he's trying to attack.
    Exactly, pretty much every male lives a life like Richard Branson or Mitt Romney. To deny how easy males have it compared to females is like denying the Holocaust.

    The existing system pushes people into gender roles. It tells men they aren't allowed to be empathic and talk about their feelings (lest they be labeled "feminine" or "gay," and it tells women they have to be obedient and empathic and sensitive, all the while mocking and dismissing them for these exact traits. "Those foolish women, listening to their feelings! We men are so much more rational... doing shit instead of giving a shit." Then they march off to some corner and express the only two emotions men are generally allowed to express: hate and anger. Indeed, it's no wonder our suicide rates are so high. Patriarchy hurts men too.
    Right. That women are taught to be more empathetic isn't an example of female privilege (that doesn't exist), it's an example of the oppression of females. And the fact that males are taught to not be empathetic is just another example of the system being rigged in favor of males.

    The important point everyone needs to understand is that female = good, male = evil.

    And what a broken concept... the idea that just being there and doing stuff for another guy, like picking him up with our car when his breaks, is good enough. It's dismissive of the depth and complexity of our existence as humans to claim that all we need to do is do stuff for each other to feel wholly emotionally supported.
    Agreed. Everyone should value words over actions to the same extent you do, otherwise they are Neanderthals (is that species-ist?). Valuing actions over words isn't a personal principle or belief. Every person should value these the same way, the way The Iron Giant does, because every person should be the same.

    I have almost exclusively female friends, because their feelings are far less likely to be totally locked down under a totally manufactured barrier of sports, guns, sexism and homophobic slurs. I can talk to them like human beings, relate to them, and they can relate to me. The male friends I have can take a compliment, a hug, and there are even a few who I can tell that I love them.
    Your view of males isn't sexist at all because it's true that 100% of males care only about sports, guns, and making sexist/homophobic slurs. Actually, that's only 99.999999% of males because The Iron Giant is the exception.

    I'm with Wade, and I think it's the worst kind of amusing that the article blames women's "infiltration of men's private places" when all of this bullshit stems from the sexist system, and the women are at the bottom of that system. It's the classic anti-feminist rant: "everything was fine when I could stand wherever I wanted and the women weren't complaining about my boot being on their fucking necks."
    The article is silly, but so is your extremist response. Women are at the "bottom of that system"? No, the poor (which includes some women, but also some...men) are at the bottom of every system. They always have been and they almost certainly always will be.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #87
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawbawbowba View Post
    Further example of female intrusiveness hahaha they just can't help themselves!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr59wELgFDo
    That isn't about equality, that's about revenge (over perceived wrongs), and as we all know, revenge always has a happy ending.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #88
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Exactly, pretty much every male lives a life like Richard Branson or Mitt Romney. To deny how easy males have it compared to females is like denying the Holocaust.
    You don't understand what privilege means. Privilege is being able to walk down the street wearing clothing without having most of the people you walk past judging your virtue based on how much clothing you're wearing. Privilege is not being surrounded by media that defines nearly all representations of women in terms of what they mean to a male. It's not about being rich or famous.

    Right. That women are taught to be more empathetic isn't an example of female privilege (that doesn't exist), it's an example of the oppression of females. And the fact that males are taught to not be empathetic is just another example of the system being rigged in favor of males.
    No, female privilege in that same sense does not exist. But you're misreading what I'm saying, or at least extrapolating things that aren't there. Women have an advantage in the area of being encouraged to be empathetic, but this is somewhat ruined by the way they're either derided and mocked for it (and so are males) or treated negatively when they aren't empathetic enough.

    The important point everyone needs to understand is that female = good, male = evil.
    Look, sexism is systemic. It's not about men doing this to women. It's about a system that places men above women, and the rest of it comes as a result. I'm angry with a system that perpetuates and pressures us all to fill these roles, which are not fair to those who end up on the receiving end. In some cases, that's men. In most, it's women. As I said, patriarchy hurts males too.

    Agreed. Everyone should value words over actions to the same extent you do, otherwise they are Neanderthals (is that species-ist?). Valuing actions over words isn't a personal principle or belief. Every person should value these the same way, the way The Iron Giant does, because every person should be the same.
    The article wasn't talking about valuing actions over words. It was being dismissive of those who claim actions aren't enough for all men.

    Your view of males isn't sexist at all because it's true that 100% of males care only about sports, guns, and making sexist/homophobic slurs. Actually, that's only 99.999999% of males because The Iron Giant is the exception.
    No, it's not sexist, because sexism is systemic and only goes the OTHER way, but that's beside the point. My words were "far less likely" and you're painting over that with high percentages to make your point through hyperbole. The very section you quoted has a second sentence that you're ingoring.

    The article is silly, but so is your extremist response. Women are at the "bottom of that system"? No, the poor (which includes some women, but also some...men) are at the bottom of every system. They always have been and they almost certainly always will be.
    I see this argument a lot. Yes, women are at the bottom of that system. THAT SYSTEM IS SEXISM, REMEMBER? POOR IS NOT A SEX. Sure, the poor are at the bottom of class systems, but that's not the class system addressed in this thread, so you're changing the subject. I try to look at sexism intersectionally, which includes factors like race and economic background, but that isn't going to be the case in every thread on the forum.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Iron Giant View Post
    You don't understand what privilege means. Privilege is being able to walk down the street wearing clothing without having most of the people you walk past judging your virtue based on how much clothing you're wearing. Privilege is not being surrounded by media that defines nearly all representations of women in terms of what they mean to a male. It's not about being rich or famous.
    Privilege is autonomy and agency which are not earned, but granted. Though, I'm sure that's not how gender studies courses define it because that would be too logically consistent. Your definition of privilege is this idea that everyone does whatever you want, and if people don't act how you want them to, then they're oppressing you (if you have a vagina).

    As for your comments about clothing, the grass is greener applies (see Trayvon Martin, if he was female he would still be alive). Also, you're basically accusing people of thoughtcrime for judging people based upon their clothing. You don't limit your criticism to actions or even words, you include thoughts. Scary.

    As for your comment about being rich and famous, that was in response to you saying men have "absurd" levels of privilege. I found that statement to be absurd.

    No, female privilege in that same sense does not exist. But you're misreading what I'm saying, or at least extrapolating things that aren't there. Women have an advantage in the area of being encouraged to be empathetic, but this is somewhat ruined by the way they're either derided and mocked for it (and so are males) or treated negatively when they aren't empathetic enough.
    You've got it. When something benefits men, it's privilege. When something benefits women, it's oppression.

    That's one of the reasons I cannot take feminism seriously. There is no logical consistency and it is the opposite of a science. Instead, feminism is more like a religion where you start with a conclusion and cherry pick facts to fit your pre-formed conclusion. If something refutes your pre-formed conclusion, you must dismiss it.

    Look, sexism is systemic. It's not about men doing this to women. It's about a system that places men above women, and the rest of it comes as a result. I'm angry with a system that perpetuates and pressures us all to fill these roles, which are not fair to those who end up on the receiving end. In some cases, that's men. In most, it's women. As I said, patriarchy hurts males too.
    Nonsense. According to patriarchy, men are in control. Men make the rules. Therefore, men ARE doing it to women. Men are the bourgeoisie and women are the proletariat.

    The article wasn't talking about valuing actions over words. It was being dismissive of those who claim actions aren't enough for all men.
    Uhhh, no. The article was saying there are other ways to support people than being a shoulder to cry on.

    No, it's not sexist, because sexism is systemic and only goes the OTHER way, but that's beside the point. My words were "far less likely" and you're painting over that with high percentages to make your point through hyperbole. The very section you quoted has a second sentence that you're ingoring.
    Right, there can only be sexism toward women. It's not possible for there to be sexism against men. Treating a person differently based upon their gender is only sexist when that person has a vagina. #logicalconsistency

    I see this argument a lot. Yes, women are at the bottom of that system. THAT SYSTEM IS SEXISM, REMEMBER? POOR IS NOT A SEX. Sure, the poor are at the bottom of class systems, but that's not the class system addressed in this thread, so you're changing the subject. I try to look at sexism intersectionally, which includes factors like race and economic background, but that isn't going to be the case in every thread on the forum.
    Intersectionality is nonsense. This idea that you can just add up privileges or a lack thereof and rank people is up there with eugenics in its stupidity. Human interaction is far more complex than this. But that's the thing with extremist ideologies, they operate under overly simplistic models of human behavior. Libertarianism does it. Conservatism does it. Feminism does it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #90
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    My best friend doesn't really ever share his "feelings".

    That's not the only way friends can communicate who they are to others though.

    Sometimes men communicate who they are in other ways.

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