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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default Is A 100% Income Tax Achievable or Desirable?

    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_eastafrica.html

    "Theoretically there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits commensurate with their income which is taxed. Assuming that development and the achievement of a high per capita income is a benefit to society as a whole I do not see why the government cannot tax those who have more and syphon some of those tax revenues into savings which can be utilized in investment for future development, thereby reducing our reliance on foreign aid."

    Barack H. Obama, July 1965
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #2
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    "Theoretically there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits commensurate with their income which is taxed....
    Faulty premise right there. Government is inherently inefficient and wasteful so it's impossible to ever get "benefits commensurate with their income which is taxed." It takes the government roughly 70 cents to distribute 30 cents worth of welfare. Medicare, which is touted as a great success by Democrats, loses $60 billion in waste, fraud, and abuse each year.

    Also such a tax system defies common sense. No one would work and if they did work, they would half-ass it if they couldn't keep their earnings. We've seen what happens when government increases income taxes. People leave when taxes become confiscatory and in the case of New Jersey, the mass exodus resulted in net loss of $90 billion/year in productivity (I'm using Chris Christie's numbers so they might be off or complete lies.).
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Faulty premise right there. Government is inherently inefficient and wasteful so it's impossible to ever get "benefits commensurate with their income which is taxed." It takes the government roughly 70 cents to distribute 30 cents worth of welfare. Medicare, which is touted as a great success by Democrats, loses $60 billion in waste, fraud, and abuse each year.

    Also such a tax system defies common sense. No one would work and if they did work, they would half-ass it if they couldn't keep their earnings. We've seen what happens when government increases income taxes. People leave when taxes become confiscatory and in the case of New Jersey, the mass exodus resulted in net loss of $90 billion/year in productivity (I'm using Chris Christie's numbers so they might be off or complete lies.).
    So that's what BO meant by "theoretically." I mean, in a perfect, Platonic universe, maybe just possibly it could happen. But it goes to show how far "out there" the Obama's really are. "Dreams from the Father" will never become a reality, Obama will only try to push the envelope of whatever reality can handle as far as possible.

    I haven't seen the Chris Christie statistic before now, so I wouldn't know about its veracity.

    How would 100% taxation affect our lives even in a perfect world?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    I haven't seen the Chris Christie statistic before now, so I wouldn't know about its veracity.
    "Boston College’s Center on Wealth and Philanthropy today released a study showing that from 2004 through 2008, $70 billion dollars in wealth left New Jersey, while the state’s charitable capacity declined by $1.13 billion."

    Reference: Boston College Study Shows $70 Billion in Wealth Leaving New Jersey

    Oops, I was off by $20 billion and it wasn't productivity but net wealth leaving the state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345
    How would 100% taxation affect our lives even in a perfect world?
    It'd be like living as a pet animal. You'd get housing, food, healthcare, and shelter but you wouldn't be able to do what you want, when you want. Money means freedom; if the government controls your money, they control you. The more money you have, the more choices are available to you (in housing, restaurants, clothing, cars, doctors, education). This is really a battle between those who don't mind living like kept animals and those who aspire to be more than a caged animal.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    So that's what BO meant by "theoretically." I mean, in a perfect, Platonic universe, maybe just possibly it could happen. But it goes to show how far "out there" the Obama's really are. "Dreams from the Father" will never become a reality, Obama will only try to push the envelope of whatever reality can handle as far as possible.

    I haven't seen the Chris Christie statistic before now, so I wouldn't know about its veracity.

    How would 100% taxation affect our lives even in a perfect world?
    The whole "government isn't inefficient" is an invalid dismissal. There are a lot of things government does more efficiently than market signals.

    The problem lies in information transfer. Imagine that are sitting at a restaurant and need to tell the waiter how much you value one item over the other. I mean, at what price would you buy lobster over steak? Except you can't use numbers. That's the problem the government has. The restaurant has to get supplies; same problem. The market's only real signal is price but it's something.

    Consumers have no way to signal without disposable income.

    It's a bit of a myth that we "need" a consumerist society to motivate people. The original argument was to create it to pacify them. Choice itself isn't even the best motivator, and with it freedom ("choice"). So if you do not need the economic signal then you just need to motivate work. Mass consumption is actually a rather mixed motivator. It took a lot of work to build the tame consumer society we have now. The demand is trained (generated, or value-added) and could largely be replaced. That's what you are looking for. The problem would be redefining the other major motivators, like social recognition. Social status is pretty heavily consumerist, so I'm not sure how that'd even work anymore.

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    That's was Obama's father back when he was an economist in Africa, in context of saving socialism there, in case anyone hasn't seen it reference before.

  6. #6
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    It'd be like living as a pet animal. You'd get housing, food, healthcare, and shelter but you wouldn't be able to do what you want, when you want. Money means freedom; if the government controls your money, they control you. The more money you have, the more choices are available to you (in housing, restaurants, clothing, cars, doctors, education). This is really a battle between those who don't mind living like kept animals and those who aspire to be more than a caged animal.
    Not really. Lack of money equates to lack of freedom only in a society where resources are allocated based on ability to pay. There are other criteria, such as ability to benefit. If you want to be free to have more than you need at the expense of those who have far less, then yes, you might find such a system curtails that "freedom".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #7
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    The year was 1965, which was back when the Soviet Union comunist experience was peaking. There was a pretty good context for anyone to believe in that as a viable option.

  8. #8
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    That would be the equivalent of a communist society. Thus, we refer back to the economic calculation problem, which ptgatsby explained fairly well.
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  9. #9
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_eastafrica.html
    "Theoretically there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits commensurate with their income which is taxed. Assuming that development and the achievement of a high per capita income is a benefit to society as a whole I do not see why the government cannot tax those who have more and syphon some of those tax revenues into savings which can be utilized in investment for future development, thereby reducing our reliance on foreign aid."
    Barack H. Obama, July 1965
    preposterous. if you tax the top income bracket at 100%, no one is going to work past a certain point (that and it's called stealing).
    @Coriolis
    your post implies that people owe something to people they don't even know. there is something to be said for some degree of anti-poverty spending and well funded public education, but people are primarily focused on looking out for themselves, their family and, to a lesser extent, their immediate community.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    "Boston College’s Center on Wealth and Philanthropy today released a study showing that from 2004 through 2008, $70 billion dollars in wealth left New Jersey, while the state’s charitable capacity declined by $1.13 billion."

    Reference: Boston College Study Shows $70 Billion in Wealth Leaving New Jersey

    Oops, I was off by $20 billion and it wasn't productivity but net wealth leaving the state.



    It'd be like living as a pet animal. You'd get housing, food, healthcare, and shelter but you wouldn't be able to do what you want, when you want. Money means freedom; if the government controls your money, they control you. The more money you have, the more choices are available to you (in housing, restaurants, clothing, cars, doctors, education). This is really a battle between those who don't mind living like kept animals and those who aspire to be more than a caged animal.
    "Well, this is our lawn. But we consume it. Indirectly, of course – through our sheep. And the advantage is that it doesn't consume us. Have you ever pushed a lawn mower? The stupidest machine ever invented-for one of the stupidest of purposes. But I digress. We solved our problem with a portable electric fence which could be used to move our flock of sheep about the lawn like a gigantic mowing machine, but leaving most of it free at any time. At night the sheep are taken across the brook to the main fold. But we soon found that the sheep kept to the enclosure and quite clear of the fence, which didn't need to be electrified. So we substituted a piece of string, which is easier to move around."
    "What about the new lambs?" Barbara asked, turning her head at a slight angle and looking at Frazier from the comers of her eyes.
    "They stray," Frazier conceded, "but they cause no trouble and soon learn to keep with the flock. The curious thing is – you will be interested in this, Burris – the curious thing is that most of these sheep have never been shocked by the fence. Most of them were born after we took the wire away. It has become a tradition among our sheep never to approach string. The lambs acquire it from their elders, whose judgment they never question.”
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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