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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yeah, I noted a while ago that many gay rights supporters (and I AM one!) seem to expect me to treat people who believe homosexuality to be wrong as the equivalent of racial bigots......no. There is also the conflict between religious freedom and the agenda of some organizations, such as threatening a Christian wedding photographer with jail for refusing to directly participate in an activity that violates his or her religious convictions. Sorry, but that's just plain religious persecution, and I will not compromise religious freedom for anybody's feelings.
    Once again into the breach dear friend.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    It's not view, it's a note of the inevitability
    That must be one powerful crystal ball you have.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    That must be one powerful crystal ball you have.
    Not at all, it's pretty obvious.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    So you are blaming the other side for manufacturing a narrative....

    Pot my names kettle. Nice to meet you.
    You think I'm on A&E's side? LOL. I'm not on "their side" and I don't think they actually care about the issue. They only care about the PR and its ultimate effect on their bottom line. So the reason A&E (which is owned by Disney-ABC) is making any statements is because of money, not ideology. This is capitalism.

    I don't even care about the gay marriage issue that much. It's a long way from my highest priority. I just don't like the anti-gay Christians because they're the same people who keep trying to put creationism in science class. And that is an issue I DO care about.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Not at all, it's pretty obvious.
    I think we've just come through a period of liberalization.

    I would not be surprised if the pendulum swung back the other way in the near/intermediate future.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You think I'm on A&E's side? LOL. I'm not on "their side" and I don't think they actually care about the issue. They only care about the PR and its ultimate effect on their bottom line. So the reason A&E (which is owned by Disney-ABC) is making any statements is because of money, not ideology. This is capitalism.

    I don't even care about the gay marriage issue that much. It's a long way from my highest priority. I just don't like the anti-gay Christians because they're the same people who keep trying to put creationism in science class. And that is an issue I DO care about.
    No I don't think you are on their side. How could you get that from my post?

    The pot and kettle idiom was reference to the narrative creation on the left (or to make it more applicable to you the narrative creation coming from whatever it is you happen to believe in).

    Every interest creates narratives. Complaining about that is like complaining that a quarter back threw a pass.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think we've just come through a period of liberalization.

    I would not be surprised if the pendulum swung back the other way in the near/intermediate future.
    Religiousity doesn't necessarily correlate with conservatism, but for this thread's purposes it does.


  8. #28
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    No I don't think you are on their side. How could you get that from my post?

    The pot and kettle idiom was reference to the narrative creation on the left (or to make it more applicable to you the narrative creation coming from whatever it is you happen to believe in).
    In order for your pot calling the kettle black statement to make any sense, I would have to be "on the side" of people creating narratives about how they're victims. In this case, that would be with A&E, against the duck people.

    Every interest creates narratives. Complaining about that is like complaining that a quarter back threw a pass.
    Uhhh, no they don't. I don't create narratives about all of my interests. Wow, that was easy to refute.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #29
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think we've just come through a period of liberalization.

    I would not be surprised if the pendulum swung back the other way in the near/intermediate future.
    There is no pendulum. There never was.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    That is a shift from 2% showing no affiliation to 12% over 60 years.

    More to the point, I would be curious to see the polling for those that are religious or spiritual without requiring them to specify a denomination or religion.

    I suspect that the "rise of the nones" which is the phenomena your chart tracks will likely continue (at what rate is up for discussion).

    Even in the face of a shift away from liberalism, I bet that chart would continue to do what it's doing.

    Basically I don't see that a reversal of the trend your chart illustrates is necessary for there to be a shift away from liberalism.

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