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  1. #21
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    If so, would you say that your personal income should be shared by all, where how it's spent should be controlled by everyone else?
    To the extent that I let it be taken in taxes, yes. I don't think the government should tax 100% of everyone one's wealth, but that's not on a matter of principle, it's because I think it is a poor policy that will yield counter-productive results. In our society today, I think for more things are private and profit driven than ought to be, but the government cannot do everything. People need to have enough money to actually practice some kind of commerce, and I view things people purchase with money as private in a sense that the money itself is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    While I believe in charities, I'd rather their monies be used to throw open educational institutions and other means to enable people to bootstrap their way out of poverty. Teach a man to fish, et al.
    Yes. Unfortunately I have zero faith in profit seeking institutions on the matter of education, so it seems easiest to leave that to the government and fund it with tax revenues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I know a lot of people who are extremely wealthy. It's because they don't care. To be fair, though, I also know a lot of people who aren't extremely wealthy...and many of them also don't care.
    This is part of what I was getting at in my first post. For people to really be rational or conscientious with their money seems to be rare. When people are super rich, that fact is just far more noticeable and has much greater impact on society.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #22
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    It's Buffet's money that he made from nothing, where he too should enjoy the aspect of having it and how it should be doled out. I don't envy or resent this.

    A dictatorship is using public monies, not his own.

    Charities aren't known for their fiscal prudence/acumen or rocket scientist leadership. They most likely would piss it all away and then it's gone.
    Yes to everything but especially to the bolded. You would be hard pressed to find a charity that is fiscally responsible and, just like most industries, administrative costs are astronomical. Also, this kind of question pisses me off to no end, and it's not even about the super wealthy. Yes being charitable is great but there are people, like myself and my husband close to or over the 200k mark. Should they or we give away part of our money simply because of what they make (and it's been implied by people to our face)? Fuck off, we work hard and earn it, paid for college ourselves and we are already taxed more than I care to talk about.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Yes to everything but especially to the bolded. You would be hard pressed to find a charity that is fiscally responsible and, just like most industries, administrative costs are astronomical. Also, this kind of question pisses me off to no end, and it's not even about the super wealthy. Yes being charitable is great but there are people, like myself and my husband close to or over the 200k mark. Should they or we give away part of our money simply because of what they make (and it's been implied by people to our face)? Fuck off, we work hard and earn it, paid for college ourselves and we are already taxed more than I care to talk about.
    Why does this make you so angry? Do you feel that your household faces financial struggles? That is, are you often worried about failing to pay bills, feel the need to cutback on daily amenities, or that you cannot afford necessary steps for social advancement (like college for your kids)?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Almost everybody in America believes they are middle class, so they don't think of themselves as wealthy a lot of the time, even when they are.

    Some studies have shown that wealth almost automatically makes every human being have an exaggerated sense of entitlement. My family is considered low-income by national standards. We've been in poverty and know plenty of people who still are. I have seen this attitude of entitlement towards poorer people in myself, and I am socialist by American standards. I feel as though we deserve the money we have, even though we really haven't been any more virtuous than we were when we were in poverty. I know better. But it still bubbles up out of my subconscious. I consider it one of our nasty primate tendencies, but I don't really know if that's true.

    Personally, I'd rather that the very wealthy saw to it that every person working for them directly or indirectly was paid at least a living wage for the area of the world they live in than see them give the money away. What they're doing now is essentially stealing wealth from the people that work for them and then, when they turn around and give that stolen wealth away, they get to look like good people for being so generous. Kind of sickening, IMO. OTOH, my house is filled with goods manufactured using slave or near-slave labor, so I am among the people I find sickening.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #25
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    Well, if these rich bastards need these boring strategies of grabbing and hoarding the gold out of fear to lose it, it could have great long-term benefits if when they die that all of the money gets willed out to the advancement of science and the development of a higher society!

    Sadly though, that's not likely to happen. An alternative would be if the rich burned every buck in their collection, effectively annihilating the corruption money has cast upon our greedy souls. But maybe we should just burn the money after we use it for the altruistic causes, because in utopias, everything is free!

  6. #26
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    The avarice that motivates humans to glory, fame, and money stays with them even after that desire is physically satiated.
    @RaptorWizard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory We have to burn all of the money, otherwise this happens.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Just give it away..... without making the recipients jump through hoops or "prove" themselves.

    If I had money like, say, Warren Buffet, I would just give it away. They wouldn't have to apply or write a grant request or an essay or a business proposal or whatever else wealthy folks require. He probably could have solved the issue of world hunger by now or saved a village of sickly diseased children.

    They certainly aren't spending the money on themselves or their family. (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/kwze6...Buffett+s+Home) so they have it to give away. I don't understand or admire rich people like this. They must live in their own head.
    I've been on both sides of this, and I have a pretty good idea why they do this.

    First of all, I'm poor. I'm really poor, and can't afford stuff like basic medical care. I'm on the side of whoever wonders why the rich can't make a greater contribution toward charity and other stuff. I definitely resent that, because I don't think humans were intended to live under such hideous inequities.

    It's easy to say that money has warped their minds and they're just greedy anti-social assholes with no compassion. It's easy to think that, but I know first hand that the truth is far more complex than that.

    You see I live in a country where people of my ethnic background are presumed to be rich. I get treated like a walking ATM because of my skin color! It's sickening! I've been staggering along deathly ill, gasping for air, dark rings under my eyes and had people clinging to me begging for money simply because they see my skin color. I've been beaten and robbed for over a very small amount of cash, just because people "just assume" I have more than I do.

    I've gone completely hungry and been living off literally 1-2 dollars per day, and I still get charged 2-4 times what someone of another ethnic background would. Why? BECAUSE I'M OBVIOUSLY RICH.

    Needless to say, this is absolutely dehumanizing towards me, and has ruined my faith towards humanity in general. I see them as greedy merciless dehumanizing bastards, to be honest.

    Now imagine you actually are rich, and people have been treating you this way all your life because they know you have money. Do you want to be known as a walking ATM? Do you want people ignoring that you're sick and hurt because when they look at you all they think of is money? Do you want to always be overcharged simply for having your background? Money dehumanizes people, and those who have it are trying to make sure they're not being taken advantage of.

    As nice as a thought as it is to just give money away, having it seems to unnecessarily pit us against each other. I'm not saying I'm "right" to feel this way, but I also think it's not right that others treat me as they do. I'm pretty sure those rich bastards are feeling pretty much the same as me.

    We do what we can, rich and poor alike. It's barbaric, but it's something in human nature, unfortunately.

  8. #28
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The avarice that motivates humans to glory, fame, and money stays with them even after that desire is physically satiated.
    @RaptorWizard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory We have to burn all of the money, otherwise this happens.
    Except that it is impossible to truly burn the money. Money is just a device, an abstraction that aids voluntary exchange. As long as there is scarcity, as long as people want to have more than they have, money of some sort will exist. Money is not the cause of avarice. Quite the opposite: money allows for the peaceful mediation of avarice, even between strangers.

    Of course, that doesn't stop some people from mistaking money for power, or wealth. It is only a measure, an abstraction. A thermometer reading 100 degrees Fahrenheit doesn't cause anything to be warm: it reads 100 degrees because it is that warm. What people choose to do given that measurement is quite another thing is quite different from such measurements causing people to do those things.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Except that it is impossible to truly burn the money. Money is just a device, an abstraction that aids voluntary exchange. As long as there is scarcity, as long as people want to have more than they have, money of some sort will exist. Money is not the cause of avarice. Quite the opposite: money allows for the peaceful mediation of avarice, even between strangers.

    Of course, that doesn't stop some people from mistaking money for power, or wealth. It is only a measure, an abstraction. A thermometer reading 100 degrees Fahrenheit doesn't cause anything to be warm: it reads 100 degrees because it is that warm. What people choose to do given that measurement is quite another thing is quite different from such measurements causing people to do those things.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Why does this make you so angry?
    The fact that you can't see why without explanation speaks volumes.

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