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  1. #81
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Australia has 18 weeks at minimum wage.
    Our new Liberal government is introducing 26 weeks of maternity leave (ie parental leave) at full pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Our new Liberal government is introducing 26 weeks of maternity leave (ie parental leave) at full pay.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #83
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I know it is too much to ask you, dear Red Herring, but I was wondering what Holmes and Watson were thinking about parental leave.

    It would be delightful to hear their voices on Central. And I must say I have been encouraged by Ratty, Badger and Toad to take this risk and ask about Holmes and Watson.

    Your Mole.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Women have a cycle of 28 days while men have a cycle of 21 days.

    The cycles are easy to measure against many parameters, only the male cycle is of a lower amplitude than the female, and of course no menses.

    And the magic occurs when a male and female are in olfactory contact for about eight hours a day, such as sleeping in the same room.

    And the magic bond forms as the female cycle comes down to 25 days, and the male cycle rises to 25 days, and they are cycling together, and are bonded.

    When the male is bonded with the female at 25 days, he becomes much more settled, and works in tandem with the female.

    So I think we can say that natural selection gave us bonding to conceive and care for new life.
    is there a place or book where I could read more about this?

  5. #85
    Member Emerald Rain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What does "on the whole" exactly mean? 50+1%? 60%? 70%? 90%? And does it mean that women are not inclined to those jobs?
    Maybe women don't simply want to do those jobs?? Like 50 years ago men wouldn't have wanted to pursue nursing, but they do now because money is good, and they're perfectly capable. So there's an increase of male nurses.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Why compare today to the 50's?

    I'm not now, and have never argued that there wasn't a vast increase in female labor participation over the last half century.

    What I am saying, is that Women have picked the low hanging fruit of increased labor force participation (ie women have by and large filled all the jobs they really want), and that the discrepancies we see now in female labor participation rates in certain industries reflect the job preferences of women generally (with the obvious caveat that there will be exceptions to this preference).

    I'm saying that we will never see a 50/50 split in the labor participation rate across all industries and that the ongoing participation rate differences between the sexes reflect what jobs the genders actually pursue with any frequency vs those that most aren't interested in (although small numbers will be).
    You are correct. there will never be a 50/50 split and that doesn't mean there's sexism/gender discrimination at work-


  6. #86
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The cost of a year of paid leave is too much for businesses to be willing to bear. Now I could see maybe 12 weeks of paid leave, but that would be the absolute limit.
    How do businesses overseas manage to fund longer leave then? In any case, if each parent got 12 weeks, they could take turns extending the total time to 24 weeks. Better than nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Why on earth, given any reasonable alternatives, would entrepreneurs hire a woman of child-bearing age if she's likely to unexpectedly take a year off at any time, forcing them to put up with massive productivity decline from her absence/temporary replacement as well as the wasted expense of her salary? Three months can be compensated for with strengths in other areas (and its in everyone's interest to reasonably subsidize families with children), but an entire year? And if try to avert that unintended consequence by simply extending that leave to male parents as well, you transfer the problem onto all young workers,
    Actually, if men start taking time off for new babies as well, then: (1) men and women are on an equal footing when it comes to likelihood of needing family leave; (2) workplaces overall become more family-friendly; and (3) babies get a better start in life, having their first few months with both parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What I am saying, is that Women have picked the low hanging fruit of increased labor force participation (ie women have by and large filled all the jobs they really want), and that the discrepancies we see now in female labor participation rates in certain industries reflect the job preferences of women generally (with the obvious caveat that there will be exceptions to this preference).
    In the last decade, more and more women have been going into the skilled trades - plumbing, electrical, etc. - than before. This is partly due to the bad economy, and the need to broaden one's horizons to find good paying work. Once in these jobs, however, most women find they like them and wouldn't go back. It took financial necessity to overcome social conditioning, but once that barrier is gone, it's gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    For instance, I think the fact that all our men were away fighting WWII forcing women into the war economy labor force had a much more profound impact on increasing female labor force participation rates than did changing norms. Furthermore, I think the cultural norms shifted in response to female participation in the war economy rather than prior to it.

    The culture norm argument sounds, at least to my ears, as if it gets the cart before the horse. I believe that gender norms change in response to changes in the female labor participation rate, not the other way around. I'm sure the norms have an effect on the margins, but I suspect it is not very large.
    Norms change in large part because they are forced to change, but once changed, there is no real going back (which just goes to show they were not useful norms). Yes, WWII brought many women into the labor force, but with the return of the troops, these women were sent back home to become the June Cleaver style housewives of the 1950s. Even war widows lost their jobs, to make room for returning soldiers who had a family to support - a double blow. That situation didn't prevail for long, though. In a similar example of norms changing due to some forcing function, women gained the right to vote in part though their contributions in WWI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I always think it's funny when Americans are all "but the sky will most definitely fall if we do that" for things that Canada (and other countries) have done successfully for years/decades - same-sex marriage, adequate health care, adequate maternity/paternity leave, abortion without extreme restrictions, gun regulations, etc etc etc. It's true that the cultures are a bit different, but still, they show that those things are feasible.
    I think it's hypocritical that the factions in the US that are most vocal in touting the importance of family values are the same ones that stand in the way of measures that will help people take care of their families.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by elodia View Post
    is there a place or book where I could read more about this?
    I had a quick look on the internet under synchronizing menstrual cycles.

    We know that women who live together start to cycle together. And it is little known that men also have a shorter, smaller cycle.

    But when men and women live together in olfactory contact for about 8 hours a day, the men and women start to cycle together.

    The woman's cycle becomes shorter and more regular, while the male cycle lengthens and the male becomes more settled.

    Unfortunately the Pill disrupts synchronous cycling.

    It may be that we fall in love when our cycles synchronize by chance.

    We also know that if one partner is away for a while, the cycles desynchronize.

    We thought this was important in the 60s when hippies were all sleeping in the same room and so in olfactory contact. We thought this would facilitate bonding in the commune.

    Unfortunately in a male dominated society mensuration and menstrual bonding are not to be spoken of. And women collude in this sexist secret.

    But menstrual bonding shows how powerful women are in social and sexual bonding. And so naturally we can't challenge the power of men, so menstrual bonding remains hidden like Cinderella.

  8. #88
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Actually, if men start taking time off for new babies as well, then: (1) men and women are on an equal footing when it comes to likelihood of needing family leave; (2) workplaces overall become more family-friendly; and (3) babies get a better start in life, having their first few months with both parents.
    4.) the economy suffers from business inefficiencies and regulatory burdens and 5.) more and more young people are trapped in unemployment or underemployment, as companies are incentivized to prioritize older employees for long-term employment and young employees for marginally productive temporary employment in place of people on parental leave, leading to 6.) young people who lack the financial capacity to start families until much later in life, contributing to the emergence of "lowest-low" fertility rates and all the social and economic problems arising from the same (most of which are just beginning to occur in developed countries).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    How do businesses overseas manage to fund longer leave then?
    Higher taxes on the middle class duh.

    No where near the military expenditures.

    And a host of other things they don't have to spend money on because they aren't a superpower.

  10. #90
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Today, sewing is thought of as a woman thing. Men are often considered "girlymen" if they like to knit or sew. But that's not based on any kind of natural inclination, IMO. Most tailors were men 100, 200 years ago.
    I asked my non-gay son what he wanted for Christmas this year, and he said he was actually experimenting with knitting and wanted some knitting paraphernalia. (I only distinguish preference in case someone assumes it was my other son and tries to write it off.)

    The times, they are a-changin' [back].
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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