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  1. #31
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think we will see some small increase in gender distribution among gender dominant professions, but a small increase is all it will be because there just aren't as many tom boys, and girly men out there.

    Lets say that today 1 of every 20 garbage men is a woman. We'll probably see an increase, but it will be small to something like 1 out of every 18 garbage men being a woman.

    Its not as if vast swaths of the female populace are clamoring to be longshoremen. A vocal minority wants the chance to do that kind of work and they should get that chance.

    But its not as if this will be some sort of mass sea change where we will be seeing half of our nations infantry suddenly become female.
    I'm not on any kind of crusade to enforce a 50/50 split in every field. I just think everybody should get a chance to do what they want to do. And to find out that they want to do things.

  2. #32
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think we will see some small increase in gender distribution among gender dominant professions, but a small increase is all it will be because there just aren't as many tom boys, and girly men out there.

    Lets say that today 1 of every 20 garbage men is a woman. We'll probably see an increase, but it will be small to something like 1 out of every 18 garbage men being a woman.

    Its not as if vast swaths of the female populace are clamoring to be longshoremen. A vocal minority wants the chance to do that kind of work and they should get that chance.

    But its not as if this will be some sort of mass sea change where we will be seeing half of our nations infantry suddenly become female.

    EDIT - I'm not saying the cultural influence doesn't exist, I am saying that it doesn't explain nearly as much as some think it does.
    I love (not) how you can always be so sure of your slightly bullshitty and baseless opinions.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm not on any kind of crusade to enforce a 50/50 split in every field. I just think everybody should get a chance to do what they want to do. And to find out that they want to do things.
    If frequently seems however, that gender distributions below their level of representation in the populace are used as irrefutable proof of discrimination without considering that one gender may just not be as interested in those jobs.

  4. #34
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Or finance for that matter, how many women here would find a high pressure sales environment in Finance attractive?
    Because you think lots of men really like it over the long term?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I love (not) how you can always be so sure of your slightly bullshitty and baseless opinions.
    Are you here to talk about me or discuss something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Because you think lots of men really like it over the long term?
    Well there sure do seem to be a lot of men working in finance many with decades in the field.

  7. #37
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Well there sure do seem to be a lot of men working in the field many with decades in the field.
    Doesn't mean the whole distribution of men like it, just that men end up doing those jobs for any combination of cultural and innate reasons. Do you think most men would enjoy professional boxing? If the best professional boxers (likely 0.0001% of the population) are men, do you think that's a good way to think about the issue of division of labor on a society-wide basis?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Doesn't mean the whole distribution of men like it, just that men end up doing those jobs for any combination of cultural and innate reasons. Do you think most men would enjoy professional boxing? If the best professional boxers (likely 0.0001% of the population) are men, do you think that's a good way to think about the issue of division of labor on a society-wide basis?
    They like it more than women.

  9. #39
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think we will see some small increase in gender distribution among gender dominant professions, but a small increase is all it will be because there just aren't as many tom boys, and girly men out there.

    Lets say that today 1 of every 20 garbage men is a woman. We'll probably see an increase, but it will be small to something like 1 out of every 18 garbage men being a woman.

    Its not as if vast swaths of the female populace are clamoring to be longshoremen. A vocal minority wants the chance to do that kind of work and they should get that chance.

    But its not as if this will be some sort of mass sea change where we will be seeing half of our nations infantry suddenly become female.

    EDIT - I'm not saying the cultural influence doesn't exist, I am saying that it doesn't explain nearly as much as some think it does.
    To your edit: I don't think we know what the situation would be without the cultural influence. It's kind of like trying to look at your own eyeball. You describe people who go outside of gender norms as tomboys and girlymen- why is that necessarily so? Why couldn't a big bearded tough guy also work in a daycare center? Why couldn't a woman who wears dresses and makeup also do small-engine repair? That you're imagining people who do a job that is typically associated with their opposite gender in that way is a sign of the strength of the cultural conditioning, IMO.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    To your edit: I don't think we know what the situation would be without the cultural influence. It's kind of like trying to look at your own eyeball. You describe people who go outside of gender norms as tomboys and girlymen- why is that necessarily so? Why couldn't a big bearded tough guy also work in a daycare center? Why couldn't a woman who wears dresses and makeup also do small-engine repair? That you're imagining people who do a job that is typically associated with their opposite gender in that way is a sign of the strength of the cultural conditioning, IMO.
    Gender norms wouldn't be norms if on the whole, more people didn't conform to them than do.

    I should have used different terms, but would you argue with the contention that more men are naturally interested in being mechanics than women?

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