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  1. #21
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    What if Thera hadn't erupted and the Minoans hadn't been finished off by the Mycenaeans?

    What if The Punic Wars were a disaster for Rome and failed to destroy Carthage?

    What if the Incas had been more united and drove the invading Spanish out?

    What if the 500 Nations hadn't been susceptible to smallpox (has anyone heard of a theory that there was some sort of plague or outbreak right before the Europeans invaded and made conquest easier? I vaguely remember someone saying this but can't remember)?

  2. #22
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    What I find fascinating with "what if" threads, is that they reveal how deeply biased people are, how they project their Ego on history, and how deeply chauvinistic they can be when there is no boundary to their imagination.

    For instance, what if the most despicable nation of history never existed: England? You would have a peaceful Europe with a big French-German-Italian conglomerate, the most scientifically advanced nation would be Ireland, and in North America everybody would probably speak French and Spanish, yet in the same be mostly of native American origin (since they wouldn't have been ruthlessly exterminated by the genocidal English maniacs).
    And Australia would still belong to their rightful owners, the aboriginal people.


    The world would be a far better place, a fairer one with less greed, less prejudice, less racism and less conflict.

    (would it?)
    Oh excellent an object lesson, I haven’t had one of those in a while! So as to the question would the world be a better place? Unlikely regardless of who is in power, unless there are sufficient balancing forces, the powerful will always take advantage of the disadvantaged.

    As for your example I assume you where alluding to the fact that you are obviously French? Actually I would also guess that you have been a university lecturer on top of that. As for the blatantly idealised version of Europe; I suppose you want that torn down as well (you remind me of a German lecturer I once had.). France, the German Principalities, and the Italian City States all fought for wealth and resources, removing England would not have changed this in the slightest. I am interested in how a Celtic culture could have developed in isolation, but you would no doubt say that is my chauvinism showing. As for the Americas I very much doubt that history would have been any kinder to them; the Europeans simply would have been of a different nationality. Even had the European powers kept its people in check; you likely would have ended up with a similar situation to the Musket Wars. The Aboriginal Australians as far as I know have never really wanted anything to do with outsiders and their ways, and given Australia’s abundant resources…..


    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    What if Thera hadn't erupted and the Minoans hadn't been finished off by the Mycenaeans?
    Given how little we know of either civilisation it is at best vague (but fun) speculation. The Mycenae civilisation fell around the same time that the Hittites and other Asia Minor powers fell due to famine; creating a dark age. Egypt being the only power to remain intact due to the Nile; so in all probability not a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    What if The Punic Wars were a disaster for Rome and failed to destroy Carthage?
    Rome and Carthage for all their antagonism where extremely similar; both where Merchant Republics with the same goal of dominating the Mediterranean. so I imagine Carthage would have ended up taking a similar trajectory to Rome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    What if the 500 Nations hadn't been susceptible to smallpox (has anyone heard of a theory that there was some sort of plague or outbreak right before the Europeans invaded and made conquest easier? I vaguely remember someone saying this but can't remember)?
    No the closest thing I have heard of was changing Trade Winds causing El Nino weather patterns leading to famine in south and central America. Sorry if that was an imposition; I just that they were very interesting questions.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  3. #23
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    If only Cpt. Jean-François de Galaup, comte de Lapérouse, had sailed into Botany Bay a few days ahead of Lt James Cook and claimed Australia for France.

    Then instead of inheriting the Aristocratic Ascendancy of Britain, and loving the outdoors, brutality, protestantism and egalitarianism and speaking English, we would be rational, elegant, catholic, practical and speak French.

    But instead we are the daughters and sons of perfidious albion.

    Thank God we have just thrashed them at cricket.

  4. #24
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    As for your example I assume you where alluding to the fact that you are obviously French?
    Yes, and my previous comment was a deliberate parody of French nationalism, just to make you understand how ridiculous your own nationalistic bias (any nationalism in fact) can be perceived and analyzed by a foreigner.
    I wasn't serious, just in case you wondered.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #25
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Yes, and my previous comment was a deliberate parody of French nationalism, just to make you understand how ridiculous your own nationalistic bias (any nationalism in fact) can be perceived and analyzed by a foreigner.
    I wasn't serious, just in case you wondered.
    Oh I was quite aware that you weren’t serious your satirical tone was hardly subtle; I answered mainly out of nostalgia as I implied before. But it would seem that I have inadvertently offended and for that I do apologise.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Intellectually I can see the limits of nationalism, particularly the nationalism of others, yet I find myself to be nationalist.

    How can I possibly resolve this contradiction?

    All I can say is that my nation is my home and I have no other home. For instance, I have Australian citizenship but, like everyone else, I have no International citizenship because it doesn't exist.

    So my head is international but my heart is parochial, and home is where the heart is.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    Thank God the French (Canada) assisted the colonies with killing many pawns of the oppressive King George & kicking the remaining agents of "lawful authority" back across the pond.
    Of course they kicked off with the patricide of King George, and followed with the fratricide of each other in the civil war.

    What next, today the infanticide of baby George?

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