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  1. #21
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Ohh, this thread has validated the usefulness of my esoteric interest of pixel art as iconography. But, yes, this is an unfortunate cultural norm. If you tried to predict our anatomies by bathroom stalls, men would have normalish shapes, and women would have giant pyramid bottoms. I don't know if putting breasts on the universal female iconographic would be more or less offensive.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    Well, now that the men have explained why women shouldn't be offended at this, we can all go home now. Glad that was cleared up.
    Who said women shouldn't be offended? Anything can be viewed as offensive, depending on your perspective. If you spend your life looking for things to be offended about, guess what you're going to find? Look at it this way, being offended is the new American pastime.
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  3. #23
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is right on the money. The heart of it is the idea that male is normal/default, while female is different. The reference to Adam and Eve showed how old this trope really is, and how insidious.


    How about mark the male characters with something readily identifiable as "male"? When real-estate on a cartoon character is limited, spending so much of it on makeup, eyelashes, or bows gives undue importance to those characteristics vs. qualities that set that particular female apart from all her sisters (or brothers).
    Yeah, I agree that the trope is outdated.
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  4. #24
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    Metroid actually plays on the expectation that the alien-fighting main character would be male, when in fact the opposite is proven true during the ending. This was inspired by the film Alien, in which Sigourney Weaver is cast as lead who would dispose of the alien. The stereotype is of course that males would be the one fighting the battles (and most games are about this in one form or another), though this is not unreasonable given our original biological roles. For videogames specifically, I agree that a primary cause is that the whole activity is currently a predominantly male one, and the creators of such are typically males themselves, although it seems to be spreading out more now, especially with the advent of the Wii. A more family orientation is building up and presumably will continue to do so; an example of this is the Xbox One, and Nintendo has for quite a while tried to cater for everyone.

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    1. Video games aren't reinforcing stereotypes. They don't have that much power. They're a reflection of stereotypes that already exist in our culture.
    Video games do both: they reflect the stereotypes, and in doing so, they perpetuate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    2. Video game consumers are primarily male and it makes sense for a company to market a game to its primary audience. More females are buying video games than in the past (and we've seen a change in marketing, as a result), but its an industry where male consumers still dominate.
    So which comes first? Do video game producers not make good female characters because niot many women play the games, or do women not play video games because of a dearth of good female characters? Built it, and they will come.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    3. She focuses most of her time on examples that are ~30 years old without acknowledging the changes that have occurred since then. Does she not realize how much our culture has changed? I don't know, maybe she's willfully ignorant. But what I do know is that acknowledging that change would undermine her agenda...which is to make money making videos that talk about how incredibly misogynistic our society is.
    Actually, the speaker did highlight several games that choose to go beyond the stereotypes rather than timidly reflecting them. I would hope things are changing with the times, but the example of Mass Effect was still quite telling.

    There is room for stylized or iconic representations of male and female. Those restroom signs are a good example. It should be even-handed, though. If the female character is presented in a way that contains no characterization other than "female", the male counterpart should be presented similarly. If the males are presented with a variety of clothing and accessories that make statements about their broader character, the female ones should be made using a similar palette. And if female characters remain a small minority within games, the industry shouldn't be surprised that their customer base remains primarily male. When they figure out that women's dollars are worth earning, the changes will accelerate. (This is happening in some sectors, like the indy games mentioned in the video.)
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  6. #26
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    @Lateralus

    Forty-seven percent of those that play videogames are female. I don't think it is accurate to perpetuate any false information regarding "domination" by the male species.

  7. #27
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Who said women shouldn't be offended? Anything can be viewed as offensive, depending on your perspective. If you spend your life looking for things to be offended about, guess what you're going to find? Look at it this way, being offended is the new American pastime.
    This might be an Fe/Fi difference that I can't pin down exactly.

    But
    Anything can be viewed as offensive, depending on your perspective. If you spend your life looking for things to be offended about, guess what you're going to find? Look at it this way, being offended is the new American pastime.
    reads to me (since the topic is specifically sexism in video games) as "People are only seeing offensive things in video games because they're trying to be offended. Therefore, their offense isn't valid and they should stop being offended."

    Which is incongruous with:
    Who said women shouldn't be offended?
    But the reason that I wrote my original comment was because I was frustrated that the first thing that some men (not all men) in this thread did was not to actually see what this female critic was saying but to casually explain her side away, even though other people in this thread started saying they were also seeing what she was seeing. Frankly, if someone is not a member of a disenfranchised group, it's a lot harder to actually see the disenfranchisement because it doesn't affect them. So if a member of the disenfranchised group explains some inequality that they're seeing, their opinion is worth seriously considering. I'm not saying everyone should automatically agree with what the disenfranchised person is saying--but I am saying that people should take into account that they can see things that aren't readily apparent to the group in power.
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  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Forty-seven percent of those that play videogames are female. I don't think it is accurate to perpetuate any false information regarding "domination" by the male species.
    Source, please. Thanks.

    Also specify what genres of game we're talking about and which genres usually get the most exposure/advertising.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Source, please. Thanks.

    Also specify what genres of game we're talking about and which genres usually get the most exposure/advertising.
    I will have to presume you are making a joke.

    Or you severely overestimate how much I care about the subject.

    I'm honestly not sure.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I will have to presume you are making a joke.

    Or you severely overestimate how much I care about the subject.

    I'm honestly not sure.
    Uh.... no. When you say 47% of video game players are women, that really flies in the face of my experience, so I want to know your source out of curiosity. I've never heard that before. But maybe you're counting smartphone games (like Candy Crush) and stuff like that in there.

    If you don't have a source, I'm not sure why you'd bother to say it. You obviously got it from somewhere.

    And what's with you "don't care about the subject"? It's your thread. You brought the topic up.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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