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  1. #11
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    pacMAN?

    I think you are illustrating @Coriolis' point here...
    Does he appear male? No, he hasn't anything that points out his gender.
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  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    pacMAN?

    I think you are illustrating @Coriolis' point here...
    I know I'm one of the secret misogynists here, being male, NT, and romantically unsatisfied, but I agree with this. Pacman is obviously intended to be male, or he wouldn't have man in the name. Male is seen as default.
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  3. #13
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    Does he appear male? No, he hasn't anything that points out his gender.
    That's the point. When the creators wanted to introduce a female version, they marked her as female, rather than the original "him" as male. They could have done both, to show: now we have two oppositely gendered characters, rather than one asexual. Instead, they took the original to be the default/male.
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  4. #14
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    pacMAN?

    I think you are illustrating @Coriolis' point here...
    Yeah, pretty much. Is "asexual" even the right way to describe it? I don't think so. I think "gender neutral" would work much better. I think @Coriolis pretty much nailed it. I swear, they even did this in Pokemon with Meowth and Meowzie.





    Although it could be argued that the pink ribbon and necklace were to show off her economic class (why Pokemon have economic classes in the first place I don't know) but the long eyelashes are still there.
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  5. #15
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    Huh, never saw this as a thing before. When pointed out, it's pretty ridiculous. Slap a bow on a character, and bam--you know it's a female.

    One thing that made me chuckle, though: when she discussed the color pink as a gender identifier, quite a few of her examples also included blue male counterparts--Lolo, Sonic, Popo, ... (It doesn't nullify the entire 'pink means female' argument, but.. hell, those weren't the best examples to string together in succession.)

  6. #16
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    That's the point. When the creators wanted to introduce a female version, they marked her as female, rather than the original "him" as male. They could have done both, to show: now we have two oppositely gendered characters, rather than one asexual. Instead, they took the original to be the default/male.
    I see your point, gender equality IS important, but this has nothing to do with intentionally degrading females. I suppose it was intended that Pacman stays the main character of the video game while Pacwoman (or however she is called) got introduced as a secondary character. As the new character had to be different from Pacman, they made her look like the typical cartoon female, which is just comprehensible. There are not many possibilities with that 8-Bit Pixel format. The studio could have changed the look of Pacman, but that would have possibly just upset their fan base.

    Have a look at this:



    It's a cartoon sereis or sth. The male version is here as stereotypical as the female. He has a hat, a bigger nose and mouth, no lips or eyelashes and bigger hands. So it is not offensive to women.
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  7. #17
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post


    It's a cartoon sereis or sth. The male version is here as stereotypical as the female. He has a hat, a bigger nose and mouth, no lips or eyebrows and bigger hands. So it is not offensive to women.
    I don't buy the whole "it happens to men too so it's not offensive to women" argument. They're both still stereotypical portrayals of the male and female genders, so in this instance people of both genders are being stereotyped. I think it's fairly obvious that both genders have certain identifiers employed by the media (I think @bologna is onto something about the color blue) and people of both genders are unfairly held up to the societal norms presented by it, but I still think the problem is more prominent among those who are female rather than male. Surely more main characters in video games are male, and even when a video game offers both the option of playing as a female character is marketed as an added bonus rather than portraying the character as the protagonist like her male counterpart. I mean, there's nothing necessarily wrong with having a male character as the main character. It's just that female characters aren't as the main character nearly as often (although two coming to mind right now are Metroid and Portal which are awesome). On the upside, though, there are some video games doing it right. An example the video didn't include is one of my personal favorite game series, Harvest Moon:





    All the protagonists seem fine to me (character customization is also available - you can have your male character wearing dresses and your female character wearing...I guess gender neutral clothes?) and regardless of what gender you choose you'll be able to have the same number of marriage options. I love this series so much.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    1. Video games aren't reinforcing stereotypes. They don't have that much power. They're a reflection of stereotypes that already exist in our culture.

    2. Video game consumers are primarily male and it makes sense for a company to market a game to its primary audience. More females are buying video games than in the past (and we've seen a change in marketing, as a result), but its an industry where male consumers still dominate.

    3. She focuses most of her time on examples that are ~30 years old without acknowledging the changes that have occurred since then. Does she not realize how much our culture has changed? I don't know, maybe she's willfully ignorant. But what I do know is that acknowledging that change would undermine her agenda...which is to make money making videos that talk about how incredibly misogynistic our society is.
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  9. #19
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    1. Video games aren't reinforcing stereotypes. They don't have that much power. They're a reflection of stereotypes that already exist in our culture.

    2. Video game consumers are primarily male and it makes sense for a company to market a game to its primary audience. More females are buying video games than in the past (and we've seen a change in marketing, as a result), but its an industry where male consumers still dominate.
    Briefly to the point. Thanks !

    3. She focuses most of her time on examples that are ~30 years old without acknowledging the changes that have occurred since then. Does she not realize how much our culture has changed? I don't know, maybe she's willfully ignorant. But what I do know is that acknowledging that change would undermine her agenda...which is to make money making videos that talk about how incredibly misogynistic our society is.
    She only had a few examples from the past years, but they were rather weak IMO.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
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    Well, now that the men have explained why women shouldn't be offended at this, we can all go home now. Glad that was cleared up.
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