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  1. #21
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I've had people sent me messages and such explaining how Fi works and such...

    Long story short: No, I don't think you're a sociopath. But I do very much disagree with the idea you're presenting here
    that's fine.

  2. #22
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    that's fine.


    I apologize if anything I said was hurtful or upsetting, I know I can be very blunt and/or abrasive with my opinions
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    if we're discovering animals we eat have feelings there's two logical options. one stop eating them the other include all animals including cats, dogs, humans, ect. so Why not just legalize cannibalism. if we want equality for everything it's only fair.
    Third option: Keep eating em.

    I think I'll choose that one.

  4. #24
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Kurt Cobain taught me that it's okay to eat fish cuz they don't have any feelings.

    And I used to have chickens in my back yard and was not a fan, so I'm totally fine eating them.

    And beef just tastes good

  5. #25
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post


    I apologize if anything I said was hurtful or upsetting, I know I can be very blunt and/or abrasive with my opinions
    it's fine I don't think you were hurtful

  6. #26
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Careful, darling. That can get you reprimanded by the scientists still researching this. It is in fact the big controversial issue that animal behaviourists, ethologists and wildlife biologists are debating today. And the preliminary conclusion seems to indicate that we are flat out wrong about that assumption.

    Their emotions do not work exactly like ours, just like we differ in other ways. But basic pain, fear, stress and chronic suffering...well they seem to be part of the basic package of being a living being as they are part of the survival mechanism.

    Sure, in cats, the frontal lobe is smaller and is thought not to allow for more complex emotions such as like self-pity, as it is not a social animal and self-pity wouldn't exactly contribute to its well fare, as there are no tribal mates to feel empathy for it, and help it out.

    But the basics of fear, pain, suffering and stress...you bet that they feel those things. In what quantities, and how it precisely works, however, is still being figured out.
    Yeah, I've never really bought that hypothesis; animals may not feel emotions with the same depth and range as cognitively developed and rudimentarily socialized humans, but many mammals in particular need too much learned behavior in order to survive in the wild* to operate strictly on some type of emotionally bereft instinct that merely mimics certain emotions that humans experience, and of course there is the unscientific but nonetheless convincing 'eye test' with mother cats and their young, or dogs grieving for a lost owner.

    *For instance, a lion raised by humans from infancy and subsequently released into the wild is going to starve.

    Edit: Doh! I accidently erased Amargith's post and substituted my own, could @Ivy or another moderator fix that please?
    Last edited by Ivy; 11-27-2013 at 08:47 AM. Reason: I hope I did it right.

  7. #27
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Homo sapiens is different because we have vastly more neurons than any other animal.

    This vast supply of neurons gives us consciousness.

    No other animal has enough neurons to be conscious.

    Of course other animals have emotions, but they don't have enough neurons to be conscious of their emotions.

  8. #28
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Homo sapiens is different because we have vastly more neurons than any other animal.

    This vast supply of neurons gives us consciousness.

    No other animal has enough neurons to be conscious.

    Of course other animals have emotions, but they don't have enough neurons to be conscious of their emotions.
    Tell that to the chimpansee conscious enough to look in the mirror and know it is them looking back and in fact admiring what they see, playing with lipstick and removing the coloured dot from their forehead that the scientist put there.

    Tell it to the elephants seeking out and killing humans and only humans after watching their moms slaughtered by our 'conscious' species when they were young over a decade ago.

    Tell it to the gorilla Koko who knew 150 signs in sign language and managed to communicate that she would like something to take care of, got a kitten, loved it, nurtured it and expressed sadness via her signs and bodylanguage when it tragically died.

    Conscious species, my ass.

    Ive honestly never hears this theory before and i aint a neurologist but i do know that the animal behaviour sector has yet to make such radical claims and that this subject is bei g researched properly finally. Even if what you state is true, the conclusion of what that means seems to fly in the face of what others in that field are finding from what ive read. Also, that answer would supposey settle the big question in that field going on atm. Consdering the debate is still going, i doubt the results and what they mean are that straightforward.

    At this point, we just dont know how the emotional response in a particular species other than our own works. All we know is that there is far more to it than was originally presumed.
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  9. #29
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yeah, I've never really bought that hypothesis; animals may not feel emotions with the same depth and range as cognitively developed and rudimentarily socialized humans, but many mammals in particular need too much learned behavior in order to survive in the wild* to operate strictly on some type of emotionally bereft instinct that merely mimics certain emotions that humans experience, and of course there is the unscientific but nonetheless convincing 'eye test' with mother cats and their young, or dogs grieving for a lost owner.

    *For instance, a lion raised by humans from infancy and subsequently released into the wild is going to starve.

    Edit: Doh! I accidently erased Amargith's post and substituted my own, could @Ivy or another moderator fix that please?
    @lowtech redneck did I get it right? I wasn't 100% sure what happened. I can't brain, I has the dumb today.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Homo sapiens is different because we have vastly more neurons than any other animal.

    This vast supply of neurons gives us consciousness.

    No other animal has enough neurons to be conscious.

    Of course other animals have emotions, but they don't have enough neurons to be conscious of their emotions.
    This is blatantly wrong. Evidence does not back you up.

    You can hold on to antiquated arguments like anthropomorphism, but, by refusing to acknowledge the mass body of research and progress in this field, you are essentially staying in the dark, and believing it to be Enlightenment. You are practicing speciesism.

    One of the substantial argument for years, to differentiate humans from other species have been the presence of spindle neurons, in our brains. Which are highly specialized cells which are thought to process emotions and allow us to feel love and grief. These cells are located in the area of the brain related to empathy, speech, intuition and social organization. Then, it was found that, not only humans had these, but the other great apes did too. But, it was believed that no other species did.

    And, then, recent evidence basically crushed this, by finding that cetacean intelligence is also the result of spindle cells. I.e., whales, dolphins, etc, also have spindle neurons.

    What's more: these spindle cells have been a feature of the cetacean species longer than our species....

    AND........
    proportionally (meaning, taking body sizes into consideration), they have THREE TIMES as many spindle cells in their brain, than homo sapiens.

    So, no, your argument has no validity.

    Edit, to add: Oh! And elephants, too.
    Last edited by Qre:us; 11-27-2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Forgot about Dumbo

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