User Tag List

Results 1 to 6 of 6

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default American Government Reduces Students to Statistics

    I told you people some time back - governments are about statistics, not about humans.

    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    260

    Default

    They've been doing this big time ever since No Child Left Behind began.

    When I graduated with a teaching degree earlier this year, they hadn't implemented the common core standards in my state yet, although we talked a little bit about it. I'm only doing one-on-one tutoring right now, so I don't have to be an expert in C.C. at this point, but when people complain about C.C. being about statistics--the thing is, they've been doing this for over a decade now with NCLB. Teachers have had to use standardized tests so much, and the schools' own funding depends on these scores, so teachers essentially have to teach to the test.

    It's really bad for kids. The one class I helped with, the teacher only had the students read half of the Shakespeare play they were studying and read a summary of the rest, all because they had to make time to study for the state standardized test coming up. How does this allow the kids to actually learn what they need to about this play and literature?

    And many kids just aren't good at taking tests--this isn't a reflection on how much they have learned.

    And who thought up the idea of rewarding schools with high scores with more money, when studies have shown that the schools who could benefit most from more funding would be the schools with the lower scores?

    And why are teachers being judged by this? Everyone knows that there are some students who just aren't interested in learning, no matter what you do and how hard you try to teach them.

    They really need to stop having people who don't know anything about education making the laws about how schools should be run.

    Okay, so this rant was more about NCLB than C.C., but they both have to do with standardized tests and judging education by statistics, so it's relevant.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  3. #3
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Might be a tangent, but it is very much related to how bad our education is currently. The problem isn't strictly because of public schools, it is more the way that it is being forced to teach and the social issues outside of education that is hindering these kids.

    Yeah.... I did a research paper about how bad our schools were and what ways should be implemented to combat this. The long term solution is more head-start and early education programs. If we can move most of the school funding towards that, it will make a load of a difference in 12 years. The difference between a middle class family and a poor family is the difference between 30 million words by age 5, and that number gets bigger the richer a family is. If we can combat that gap first, then the grades will take care of itself eventually. The second is to put the hands of the children to people willing to talk (lots) and play with them when they are pre-5. After school funding to watch over elementary and middle-school kids until the parents are able to pick them up may help because the kids are actively engaging with someone, that is if the kids don't have parents to go to after school.

    The priority we should be setting is early childhood development, but I don't think most Americans are up for that. This gets exasperated because the poor schools are usually the one that gets bad grades and the least funding. The biggest role that people can play in a kids life and the kid's learning capabilities in the future is to have people talk to them pre-5 years of age, the more the better. Poor families have it rough because most will need to spend most of their time working, rarely talking to the kid.

    I still don't get why people are making a fuss about teachers when most of them are force to teach by a standard.

  4. #4
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Might be a tangent, but it is very much related to how bad our education is currently. The problem isn't strictly because of public schools, it is more the way that it is being forced to teach and the social issues outside of education that is hindering these kids.

    Yeah.... I did a research paper about how bad our schools were and what ways should be implemented to combat this. The long term solution is more head-start and early education programs. If we can move most of the school funding towards that, it will make a load of a difference in 12 years. The difference between a middle class family and a poor family is the difference between 30 million words by age 5, and that number gets bigger the richer a family is. If we can combat that gap first, then the grades will take care of itself eventually. The second is to put the hands of the children to people willing to talk (lots) and play with them when they are pre-5. After school funding to watch over elementary and middle-school kids until the parents are able to pick them up may help because the kids are actively engaging with someone, that is if the kids don't have parents to go to after school.

    The priority we should be setting is early childhood development, but I don't think most Americans are up for that. This gets exasperated because the poor schools are usually the one that gets bad grades and the least funding. The biggest role that people can play in a kids life and the kid's learning capabilities in the future is to have people talk to them pre-5 years of age, the more the better. Poor families have it rough because most will need to spend most of their time working, rarely talking to the kid.

    I still don't get why people are making a fuss about teachers when most of them are force to teach by a standard.
    I agree with this, and I'd also say they should focus on making sure kids are understanding the concepts that they should in elementary school. It's much easier to help a kid that's falling behind if they're only a grade or two behind than if they get to high school and only are at a 5th grade reading level.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  5. #5
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Finland's system seems to work pretty well and they don't start formal education until age seven, though they may have some kind of early childhood program. From what I've read, their goal was to provide an equal education for all students. Turning out to be one of the top education systems in the world was a happy accident.

    The US has a high child poverty rate for a developed nation and poverty is definitely having a big impact. And it's a cycle. Parents can't give what they don't have. When you're working crazy shifts, spending your time off in a half-dozen different offices trying to apply for assistance and hitting food pantries/soup kitchens when they're open and when you can't go to the doctor when you're sick and you can't afford to pay for reliable childcare, the last thing you've got the time and energy for is talking and reading to your kids.

    But as far as stats go, a lot of that is the result of a drive to privatize public education, diverting public money into private hands via school vouchers and charter schools, even though they haven't been shown to get better results despite being able to cherry pick students. It's win-win for businesses: privatized schools, public assistance programs being administered by private, fee-charging banks, private for-profit prisons. It's, IMO, seriously messed up.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #6
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Finland's system seems to work pretty well and they don't start formal education until age seven, though they may have some kind of early childhood program. From what I've read, their goal was to provide an equal education for all students. Turning out to be one of the top education systems in the world was a happy accident.

    The US has a high child poverty rate for a developed nation and poverty is definitely having a big impact. And it's a cycle. Parents can't give what they don't have. When you're working crazy shifts, spending your time off in a half-dozen different offices trying to apply for assistance and hitting food pantries/soup kitchens when they're open and when you can't go to the doctor when you're sick and you can't afford to pay for reliable childcare, the last thing you've got the time and energy for is talking and reading to your kids.

    But as far as stats go, a lot of that is the result of a drive to privatize public education, diverting public money into private hands via school vouchers and charter schools, even though they haven't been shown to get better results despite being able to cherry pick students. It's win-win for businesses: privatized schools, public assistance programs being administered by private, fee-charging banks, private for-profit prisons. It's, IMO, seriously messed up.
    Yep, my research dealt with private schools and charter schools too (it dealt with a debate whether school vouchers would be great for families in poor income communities.) My research led to the finding that most were not much different from their public counterparts. In fact, they were very similar to the public schools in grades.

    The debate ended with someone telling me that I sold them on all the long-term benefits of head-start, early childhood, and better paid parents, but what about the short-term to the kids that need them now? (like those already in middle-school and high school) I got pounded by people because it sounded like I said they were basically screwed by the social system. And in a way, they are. Mostly because they weren't taken care of enough (or there wasn't enough time) before setting off to school.

Similar Threads

  1. 10 Disturbing Facts Most Americans Are Too Fearful To Face
    By Xann in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-16-2015, 04:15 PM
  2. Venezuela government orders troops to streets, arrests + tortures 100s of opponents
    By Il Morto Che Parla in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-18-2013, 02:40 PM
  3. Advice for soon-to-be undergraduate students.
    By Bear Warp in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 06-29-2008, 09:20 PM
  4. Inability (or reduced ability) to eat
    By labyrinthine in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-04-2007, 04:06 PM
  5. Is the government out to get me?
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 03:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO