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Thread: U.S. History

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    Default U.S. History

    I find that the more I learn the less I like the U.S.
    Anyone else feel similar?

    My major grudge is how the Native Americans were dealt with; especially the Nez Perce.

    Am I just looking at the bad side of history or is the U.S. generally just a bully of a nation?

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    You don't become the only world super power by being nice.

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    I don't know that we're a lot worse than everyone else historically, but I don't think we're better. My dad told me years ago to never believe that Americans don't commit war crimes. He saw otherwise in Viet Nam.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    I just don't know how to feel about it really. I live in a very patriotic family and my dad got seriously mad at me when I voiced my opinion about "our" history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I just don't know how to feel about it really. I live in a very patriotic family and my dad got seriously mad at me when I voiced my opinion about "our" history.
    A lot of people are like that. Our last governor kept books out of public schools that presented an alternative view of US history.

    When you consider how scared a lot of people are of other countries doing stuff to us even though we spend more than the next nine countries combined on defense and we're the only country that has ever nuked another country, it's pretty crazy. But there is a lot of effort invested in the propaganda, IMO. It keeps things comfortable for the people at the top if everyone believes we have the best healthcare system in the world and Iran is out to get us, etc.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    But there is a lot of effort invested in the propaganda, IMO. It keeps things comfortable for the people at the top if everyone believes we have the best healthcare system in the world and Iran is out to get us, etc.

    That's one of the reasons I'd love to go to college in a different country (too bad most international tuition is bloody expensive), I know it's naive to think that the U.S. is the only developed country that's like that, but I do think not a lot of other western countries are quite to the U.S.' extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    That's one of the reasons I'd love to go to college in a different country (too bad most international tuition is bloody expensive), I know it's naive to think that the U.S. is the only developed country that's like that, but I do think not a lot of other western countries are quite to the U.S.' extent.
    I don't know, but suspect you are right.

    You may not be able to do all of your undergrad in a different country, but you could do a year of study abroad for the same tuition and room and board as a US university. You still have your extra expenses and your airfare, but you can also get scholarships to help cover some of the costs. I only know that because my daughter attends a state university and will be studying abroad for a semester in the spring.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I find that the more I learn the less I like the U.S.
    Anyone else feel similar?

    My major grudge is how the Native Americans were dealt with; especially the Nez Perce.

    Am I just looking at the bad side of history or is the U.S. generally just a bully of a nation?
    The country was founded with force and violence. Nothing, I mean nothing was going to stop expansion to the west for several reasons and it was going to happen with force where force was needed. You have to remember what was happening at that time. Do you not think the Civil War had a big part to play in it? Manifest destiny became a policy, that it was gods will and Americans were gods chosen people. I would like to add there were many who contested that - President Lincoln being one and I certainly doubt the founders would have agreed with it either but religious fundamentalism ruled the day. Yes, the way the Native Americans were treated was terrible. However, it can't be changed now and reparations are being paid to this very day. I really, really, really urge you to read and educate yourself on the history. In no way am I excusing many of the things in American history but I am taking a great deal into account as to the mindset of the nation as a whole. You should do the same.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I find that the more I learn the less I like the U.S.
    Anyone else feel similar?

    My major grudge is how the Native Americans were dealt with; especially the Nez Perce.

    Am I just looking at the bad side of history or is the U.S. generally just a bully of a nation?
    I think it's silly to assume nations are better or more noble than others - at least on the subject of war and oppression. Each one has their dark times and each nation looks out for their own interests.

    The reason why we are hated is because we have no loyalty other than our interests. We make deals with our enemies if that helps us, and if our interests change, we then assist those who can help us. Even if it was the opposing faction of those we just assisted.

    They don't have to deal with us but it's most likely in their interest to do so.

    We are no better or different from other nations in this regard. If you speak of our own history it is not roses but most empires are built on blood.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I find that the more I learn the less I like the U.S.
    Anyone else feel similar?

    My major grudge is how the Native Americans were dealt with; especially the Nez Perce.

    Am I just looking at the bad side of history or is the U.S. generally just a bully of a nation?
    The problem with this is that what was done in the far distant past isn't really very relevant today. It's kind of like saying that the you don't like the British or Italians because at one point, they tried to rule the world.

    It's more relevant to look at what has been done in recent past (i.e. last 20 years) and current actions and policies.

    Edit: I actually believe history is important in many respects. It helps you understand what happened in the past and why. Things that happen in the past tend to recur in the future (and this isn't limited to country specific things). So, past history is quite valuable but I generally find it valuable in projecting forward and not looking backwards. Where I'm disagreeing is arriving at conclusions about a nation and what they are today, based on what happened a long time ago.

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