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Thread: U.S. History

  1. #11
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    You learn history to, hopefully, learn from it. As in to not repeat mistakes made in the past. To know what was done well, and what sucked major.

    If you lose interest in it from the gruesome parts, it sort of takes the power out of the whole thing. It's sort of like looking at a trash can getting full and saying, "Ew." and closing the lid.
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  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Yeah, the US is an asshole. But it seems like basically all the countries are, or at least have been. Ditto @kyuuei, we have to learn from it.

    I do remember being totally stunned when I had a shift in perspective regarding the American Revolution.

  3. #13
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    The Americans didn't do anything beyond the standards of human nature. As Stephen Hawking points out while discussing what aliens will be like during first contact, a more technologically advanced society will always abuse a less technologically advanced society. Europeans did it in Africa, Asia, the Americas, and the South Pacific. Romans did it all the time. The Chinese did it.

    Was it right? No. Was it typifying of American culture by being beyond the norms of a society? No.

    If you look at any society in the world that tries to be technologically modern, you'll find incidences like this. Nobody is innocent. But America means well, unlike lots of other nations that like to vilify us. We pay compensation and don't try to brazenly conquer other lands.
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  4. #14
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    Yes. As has been mentioned, not much in US history has been beyond the scope of typical human nature. I could tell you things about countries' histories around the globe far more fucked up than any Japanese internment or native American displacement, and within the same timeframes.

    Our largest shame should be the condition of blacks (perhaps all minorities, trying not to think too hard) in America. I can get past slavery. I cannot get past those that would dismiss its still prevalent and readily apparent affects on society. Just today I noticed my partner/coworker has a Confederate flag as his iPhone lock screen. Do these people even know?

    Bertrand Russell has a cool essay, The Future of Mankind, that shakes down the militaristic attitude of the United States, if you wonder of our more modern global happenings.

  5. #15
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Yes. As has been mentioned, not much in US history has been beyond the scope of typical human nature. I could tell you things about countries' histories around the globe far more fucked up than any Japanese internment or native American displacement, and within the same timeframes.

    Our largest shame should be the condition of blacks (perhaps all minorities, trying not to think too hard) in America. I can get past slavery. I cannot get past those that would dismiss its still prevalent and readily apparent affects on society. Just today I noticed my partner/coworker has a Confederate flag as his iPhone lock screen. Do these people even know?

    Bertrand Russell has a cool essay, The Future of Mankind, that shakes down the militaristic attitude of the United States, if you wonder of our more modern global happenings.
    First of all, the Confederate Flag today stands for anti-bureaucracy and states rights, not for racism. If you want symbols for racism, go knock on the neo-nazi door across the street.

    Second of all, explain to me what we should actually do about "slavery's prevalent and readily apparent effects on society"?

    It's been over a hundred years now. That's way past the line of slavery actually being a factor anymore. Sociological factors are in play. Unless you're trying to tie some very thin and weak connection between the situation of the modern African-American and the fact that slavery is what brought them here.

    If that's what you're arguing, then I'm sure you must also think sending them back is the answer, since bringing them over is the problem. Unfortunately, they're all descendents of slaves, and aren't actually transplanted Africans. So what you're saying is the problem is flawed, which is why you have absolutely no solution whatsoever. You're just jumping on the very rickety bandwagon of "black people are miserable and it's white people's fault".

    So no, slavery is not relevant today, no more than British taxation of stamps are relevant to our economic situation. There are legitimate, actual factors in play -- relevant and sociological factors. The issue is one of either crime-glamorizing rappers' impact on impressionable young children from poor backgrounds or economic factors that keep poor people poor.
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  6. #16
    WALMART
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    @tkae. - look at the disparity between Brazil's racial income levels and then look at the United States'. Guess which country enforced segregation during the global instituion of slavery and which didn't. Civil Rights Act, 1964. My father was even alive before blacks were treated as part of the human race in America.

    Actually, I'm rereading your post, and my mind has gone swimming. Did not know people were so brazenly ignorant.

    The Confederate flag has always stood for state rights... certainly not human rights. The Civil War was fought over slavery, and that's all the south stood for.

    From the Mississippi declaration of secession, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world … a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization."

    Powers of the meme are tangible, it is unfortunate such a tragic chapter of American history is frequently written off as a fight for "State Rights".

  7. #17
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    The Civil War was fought over slavery, and that's all the south stood for.
    That's what the textbooks want you to believe.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    That's what the textbooks want you to believe.
    Another note of secession, this time from Texas, "We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

    Blegh.

    http://www.psmag.com/culture-society...slavery-26265/

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