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  1. #11
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    "Later in his presidency, Hoover did more than just jawbone to keep wages up. He signed two pieces of labor legislation that dramatically increased the role of government in propping up wages and giving monopoly protection to unions. In 1931, he signed the Davis-Bacon Act, which mandated that all federally funded or assisted construction projects pay the “prevailing wage” (i.e., the above market-clearing union wage). The result of this move was to close out non-union labor, especially immigrants and non-whites, and drive up costs to taxpayers."
    Actual wages showed little effect from either Hoover's voluntary policies, or these limited bills. Hoover's idea of wage control was thus more wishful thinking than anything else. Still, I would be interested in knowing how corporate profits fared during these years. Responsible companies invest profits back into their business, just as responsible employees accept wage reductions rather than lose their jobs. What is unfair and ineffective is to place the majority of the burden of economic hard times on those least able to shoulder it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    FDR presided over the Great Depression from 1932 to 1939. The WPA was created in April 1935 and according to wikipedia, it only provided work to 3.55 million Americans. The problem with government works programs is it takes money from the private sector to create these jobs and since government is always less efficient, that money is wasted. For instance, Obama's stimulus bill cost $827 billion and created each job at the astounding price of around $425,000 (going by memory) and that level of waste is considered a success.
    Actually, FDR did not take office until 1933. References beyond wikipedia list WPA as employing over 8 million people, which can be compared to the 13 million unemployed when FDR took office. Government investment through the WPA also stimulated considerable private sector job creation. Interestingly, this program replaced an earlier program which simply gave handouts to the poor ("the dole"), based on the philosophy that the dignity and productiveness of work was preferable to a handout. The productiveness was certainly preferable, and resulted in considerable development of the nation's infrastructure, much of which is still around today. WPA thus killed two birds with one stone. In any case, Obama's current policies are irrelevant to an analysis of the effectiveness of FDR's policies, though both presidents share the experience of inheriting significant economic troubles from their predecessors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    We can start by allowing oil drilling in ANWR and off the California coast. We should approve the construction of the Keystone Pipeline asap. I'd put a moratorium on all new fracking regulations from the EPA.
    These solutions make sense in the short term, but not the long term. At best they are robbing Peter to pay Paul. One of the most contentious fracking regulations is to require fracking companies to tell the communities where they want to work exactly what they are doing, and what chemicals they are adding to the ground. The rights of residents in a community are at least as great as the rights of business, and the only way for an equitable and workable arrangement to be worked out is for all the facts to be on the table. If economic development cannot tolerate regulations that require simple honesty and transparency, we have more problems than a recession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Other sectors of the economy can be stimulated by removing most licensing laws. We require cabbies in New York to purchase $1 million licenses to drive a taxi. We require florists to spend thousands of dollars taking classes and acquiring a license; the same applies to hair stylists. These are all job killing regulations. The government should have no role in regulating hair cuts.
    Now this part I agree with. Society as a whole has become certification-happy, giving paper credentials (usually obtained at significant cost) greater weight than actual experience or ability. Just think, though, how many bureaucrats would become unemployed if this actually were done. Your marijuana example is apt; unfortunately a few thousand jobs are but a drop in the bucket.

    I would add to this that we need to end the mentality that everyone must go to college. College used to be where people went who were of an academic bent and interested in scholarly study of some field or other. Now it has turned into just another venue for job training. Not everyone is suited to or interested in academic pursuits. There should be more opportunities - and more encouragement - for people to enter professions through apprenticeships or other more hands-on routes.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #12
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    Just think, though, how many bureaucrats would become unemployed if this actually were done.
    That's the point. The goal is not to pay people to shuffle papers but to engage in productive economic activity. The fewer the bureaucrats, the better.

    I would add to this that we need to end the mentality that everyone must go to college. College used to be where people went who were of an academic bent and interested in scholarly study of some field or other.
    College reform is much needed. We make pre-med students take a whole bunch of worthless courses (general ed.) wasting entire years, costing tens of thousands of dollars. What we need are internship associations between corporations and high schools; this lets students learn more about what their interests are and it gives corps cheap labor.

    The rights of residents in a community are at least as great as the rights of business, and the only way for an equitable and workable arrangement to be worked out is for all the facts to be on the table.
    That's an unfounded fear. I believe the former EPA chief, Lisa Jackson, testified before Congress that she knew of no example where fracking harmed the environment.

    In any case, Obama's current policies are irrelevant to an analysis of the effectiveness of FDR's policies, though both presidents share the experience of inheriting significant economic troubles from their predecessors.
    Clearly, FDR's policies failed or we wouldn't have had a "Great Depression". I'd recommend that you read Amity Shlae's book "The Forgotten Man". The author starts off each chapter by listing the unemployment rate. I don't think FDR ever got below 13% before WW2. Also, FDR tinkered with wage controls and price controls, which screwed up the economy. There was actually a law enforced by the National Recovery Association which set the price for chickens and FDR's justice dept sued a family of chicken butchers over selling one sick chicken. The judge fined them several years worth of salary and sentenced them to 3 months in jail.

    I mention Obama because he's following the same tired, Keynesian policies that FDR tried. I don't see the point in repeating past failures.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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