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  1. #31
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    On some level they all want fame. They don't organize sensible revolution, but act alone. They don't just kill family and themselves, they would just be another statistic that way, so they do it dramatically in public and take other people with them, knowing that they will be famous.

    One of the wisest things I have heard is an old man declare "they need to stop sensationalizing this shit on the news."

    Obviously they are guided in an insane way by cultural norms for fame and individuality, so labeling and treating them as terrorists would take the social imaginary glory out of it, and turn it into cultural shame and embarrassment. Do you follow what I mean?
    There definitely needs to be a media strategy, in the seventies and eighties they tried it with Sinn Fein in Ireland with a broadcasting ban which was circumvented by using the voices of actors or subtitling interviews.

    Sinn Fein was always a sophisticated political and media operation by themselves though.

    It has worked differently, and I would say better, with the more recent threats of violence from poltiical islam, even the radical anti-immigration and neo-fascistic violence in england and the rioting, they didnt cover those things in the same way at all and there wasnt even a ban on broadcasting, just a different coverage culture.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There definitely needs to be a media strategy, in the seventies and eighties they tried it with Sinn Fein in Ireland with a broadcasting ban which was circumvented by using the voices of actors or subtitling interviews.

    Sinn Fein was always a sophisticated political and media operation by themselves though.

    It has worked differently, and I would say better, with the more recent threats of violence from poltiical islam, even the radical anti-immigration and neo-fascistic violence in england and the rioting, they didnt cover those things in the same way at all and there wasnt even a ban on broadcasting, just a different coverage culture.
    I already have personally interacted with a young man sympathizing with the LAX terrorist, saying well I can understand why he would kill a TSA agent, completely glossing over the THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE affected by the flight delays, traffic jams, and post traumatic stress disorder of being randomly shot at in a public place. Also totally glossing over how the method is an utterly ineffective way of changing anything, in fact, it could make TSA stricter, not the other way around.

    Another poster replied, your name is so and so but it should be crazy asshole. Still this guy persisted on, apparently embracing the idea that we should all just say fuck you to the world with a weapon, because we feel like it.

    It's an overall sick cultural attitude that has no basis in logic, and giving these people fame and asking why why why in magazines just encourages others.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Now before any naive people suggest this is about mental illness, you need to check your statistics on mentally ill women and non-white men, who are much less likely to randomly kill in public spaces. So much so that to me "mental illness" seems like a bleeding heart irrational cop out. [hostile comment removed]

    It's terrorism, plain and simple. It's terrorism in a pathetic attempt to glorify the self.

    White male terrorists who shoot innocent people for no good reason should be captured alive and taken to terrorist prison camps, just like their Jihadist counterparts. To do anything less is naive stupidity and racism.
    Firstly, I have to admit that I'm sort of chuckling at this post. Thanks, Marm, you never fail to entertain.

    "Insanity" is strictly a legal term. It's inherently a cop-out and it basically grants the defendant something tantamount to the benefit of the doubt. It does this in spite of the quasi-rational discourse of the court. So yes, it is a matter of entitlement, but it isn't exclusive to white males. Historically, it's probably been pleaded more for white defendants, though.

    Frankly I don't have a problem with white male terrorists being shot on sight; most of them wouldn't offer valuable information even in death. Whatever the case, let them rot.

    Anyway, I have to use this opportunity to mention a Tom Clancy inspired quote:

    Lambert: Nobody knows whether he's a US agent or a terrorist.
    Fisher: Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
    Last edited by Randomnity; 11-03-2013 at 07:03 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Now before any naive people suggest this is about mental illness, you need to check your statistics on mentally ill women and non-white men, who are much less likely to randomly kill in public spaces. So much so that to me "mental illness" seems like a bleeding heart irrational cop out. [hostile comment removed]

    It's terrorism, plain and simple. It's terrorism in a pathetic attempt to glorify the self.

    White male terrorists who shoot innocent people for no good reason should be captured alive and taken to terrorist prison camps, just like their Jihadist counterparts. To do anything less is naive stupidity and racism.
    Though Marm I must caution that some people work with different mechanics of logic. The strict and formal interpretation of "White men" may be interpreted as "all white men", and so on and so forth. So you're going to rustle some jimmies.
    Last edited by Randomnity; 11-03-2013 at 07:03 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I already have personally interacted with a young man sympathizing with the LAX terrorist, saying well I can understand why he would kill a TSA agent, completely glossing over the THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE affected by the flight delays, traffic jams, and post traumatic stress disorder of being randomly shot at in a public place. Also totally glossing over how the method is an utterly ineffective way of changing anything, in fact, it could make TSA stricter, not the other way around.

    Another poster replied, your name is so and so but it should be crazy asshole. Still this guy persisted on, apparently embracing the idea that we should all just say fuck you to the world with a weapon, because we feel like it.

    It's an overall sick cultural attitude that has no basis in logic, and giving these people fame and asking why why why in magazines just encourages others.

  6. #36
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Part of the problem with focusing on an "ideal" world for me is that, all too often, people seem to use that as an excuse to be dicks to each other in the present (to put it mildly) because it will somehow lead to a better tomorrow.

    Islamic terrorists, in one sense, are idealists. It's simply that their ideal world looks very different to what most people in this country would consider ideal. The Unabomber, too, was an idealist. Just because you don't like what they did doesn't mean they didn't have ideals.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  7. #37
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    Can you help us check these statistics by providing them?

  8. #38
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    Between 1982 and 2012 there were 62 mass public shooters and 44 of them were white males. The number is of course now outdated since several have happened in 2013. Only one shooting was done by a woman.

    25 of those 62 shooting have occurred since 2006.

    White men make up 30 percent of the population, but 70 percent of mass public shooting.

  9. #39
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    I have several theories on why it is men, and why these men are white, but it doesn't seem to me you're actually asking for an explanation.

    It seems like the sort of situation where giving an explanation, or speculating, is going to be seen as "endorsement."
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  10. #40
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Between 1982 and 2012 there were 62 mass public shooters and 44 of them were white males. The number is of course now outdated since several have happened in 2013. Only one shooting was done by a woman.

    25 of those 62 shooting have occurred since 2006.

    White men make up 30 percent of the population, but 70 percent of mass public shooting.
    Assuming that for each racial group, there is an equal number of men and women (that is, 50% any percentage of whites or blacks is male/female), this would suggest that whites are over represented by around ~7% (if we just take data for 2010) for the number of mass shootings based on their population size, which has varying since 1982 (and I haven't adjusted for the variation by years).

    In 1990, non-hispanic whites were 75.6% of population. In 2000, 69.1%. In 2010, 63.7%.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-His...e_or_territory

    While this indicates that men are clearly more likely to be shooters than women, it doesn't indicate white men are especially more likely to be shooters than any other group based on population size. I'm not going to add up every number*, but the average here suggests that they are probably 'on-par' or a percentage point or three high for their size of the population (removing gender).


    I think men are significantly more prone to homicidal urges but I'm not seeing where white men are demonstrably more homicidal than any other group of males.




    *This is a rough estimate

    Addition: I'm not an expert in statistics but because there is a smallish sample size (62 shootings, and I'm taking Marm's stats as she stated them), I think that a few percentage points becomes less significant. If there were thousands of shootings, a 3 percent difference would mean a lot more (stronger trend) than with 62 shootings. (with 62 people each person represents 1.6%, so two people any direction could make a 3% shift)


    You could still make profiles about certain types of "white, middle class" shooters, but I don't think the stats demonstrate that white men are especially more or less likely to be shooters than other groups of men.


    Addition 2:
    Since I'm no expert in stats I'd welcome criticism on a factual basis of my assessment.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.
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