User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 66

  1. #21
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    I may have completely taken the wrong thing from this scene...

    But when Alai whispered "salaam" in Ender's ear and kissed him on the cheek, I thought it represented something intimate forming between them, or at least from Alai. It's a pretty common theme for war, the bond between men in the face of adversary and relative isolationism. I thought maybe Card realized homosexuality was no more than people operating without borders, who (as Jennifer noted) didn't inherently buy into the paradigm of hetero relationships as many of us tend to do, that it's a simply natural manifestation of reality. Of course, I'm also American, where kissing is fairly exclusive to intimate lovers. This probably put a heavy slant on my interpretation of the scene as a child.

    It's a scene I thought about often. But reading all this, these past few months...

    I actually just read a summary of the scene, and apparently Ender heavily questions Alai's intent regarding the kiss. Hm.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah. Hitler made some of those.


    ^^ YAY! I just Godwin'ed the thread! Woo hoo!
    He's not a Hitler, in fact after Card wrote his seminal 1990 treatise about homosexuality, he was condemned by some LDS for being too leftist liberal on the subject.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    He's not a Hitler, in fact after Card wrote his seminal 1990 treatise about homosexuality, he was condemned by some LDS for being too leftist liberal on the subject.
    Way to miss what was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

    Of course people on both sides criticized him, but would you reasonably label his views "moderate" just because there are people to the right of him?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+
    Why is he kindof an asshole?
    I've interacted with him a few times before. Great writer, but in person he's kind of a dick. Arrogant and a bit awkward, which I wouldn't hold against him if he weren't also arrogant.

    As far as I understand, his publically-held position is that when gay marriage was illegal, he was against it, and he was for enforcing the law against it. Now that it is legal, he is still against it, but he is not in favor of enforcing anti-homosexual action against the law. Given the classic D&D alignment axes, I think he is trying to emphasize that he is Lawful over Good. Whether that is a PR move or a personal opinion, I don't know.

    @superunknown he seems to have written a few instances of homosexual relations transpiring but yielding negative consequences.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Way to miss what was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

    Of course people on both sides criticized him, but would you reasonably label his views "moderate" just because there are people to the right of him?
    Yes, by definition of "moderate." Very few homosexuals would be arrested under his view of anti-homosexual legislation. But yes, some would be arrested, for sodomy and the like, and on an individual basis. Those farther to the right would have the whole bunch arrested simply for being gay.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #26
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I've interacted with him a few times before. Great writer, but in person he's kind of a dick. Arrogant and a bit awkward, which I wouldn't hold against him if he weren't also arrogant.
    @superunknown he seems to have written a few instances of homosexual relations transpiring but yielding negative consequences.
    Interesting. I've only read the first two of both Ender's and Bean's story arcs, and played the game Shadow Complex (which he wrote). Do you have any source with all of the instances aggregated?

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yes, by definition of "moderate." Very few homosexuals would be arrested under his view of anti-homosexual legislation. But yes, some would be arrested, for sodomy and the like, and on an individual basis. Those farther to the right would have the whole bunch arrested simply for being gay.
    Funny you focus on judicial process as the determining factor here.

    I'm just looking at his values statements.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Funny you focus on judicial process as the determining factor here.

    I'm just looking at his values statements.
    Yes, "moderate" is a political term. But Card believed in forgiving homosexuals and allowing them into his church after they have renounced their ways and accepted Jesus into their hearts.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #29
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    I'm relieved he isn't making money directly on this movie (according to Mother Jones) because I really need to see the movie today.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #30
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Interesting. I've only read the first two of both Ender's and Bean's story arcs, and played the game Shadow Complex (which he wrote). Do you have any source with all of the instances aggregated?
    Here's the relevant section from the Salon article I linked to above:



    Bleck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yes, "moderate" is a political term. But Card believed in forgiving homosexuals and allowing them into his church after they have renounced their ways and accepted Jesus into their hearts.
    Who says they weren't already in Mormon church and hadn't already accepted Jesus into their hearts? Anyway, 1990 was a while back, and that was not the most conservative possible position at the time... that's one reason why I find his more recent position as a NOM board member to be more troubling.

    And I agree the Mormons have a right to define membership in their church how they like, even if I see it as damaging to people who grow Mormon and turn out to be gay.

Similar Threads

  1. Ender's Game *SPOILERS*
    By Ginkgo in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-18-2015, 08:50 PM
  2. Ender's Game Movie
    By cafe in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-11-2014, 02:16 PM
  3. Pope Francis on homosexuals: "Who am I to judge?"
    By Typh0n in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 08-02-2013, 08:06 PM
  4. Ender's Game (2013)
    By Rail Tracer in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 05-12-2013, 10:04 AM
  5. Ender's Game/Shadow
    By Evan in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-10-2008, 01:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO