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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Sexism is undeniably worse in many parts of the world than in the west. The relative rule of law and absence of corruption here are a significant factor, but we are still left with at best a kinder, gentler sexism. It rests on the same basic principle, namely that women and men are so fundamentally different that double standards are not only acceptable, but necessary and even "natural".

    Ironically "greater" problems like starvation, illiteracy, and poverty in less developed parts of the world are most readily addressed by improving the lot of women in those areas: giving them access to education, health care, political rights, and otherwise enabling their economic and social self-sufficiency.
    There is also something called the fourth world, which applies to native tribes, wandering gypsies, hippies, and all the people who live in third world conditions in a first world country, this is more common in the U.S. than in western Europe bc of our insane wealth discrepancy and lack of health care.

    Anyway, I think misogyny is similar in the U.S. ... upper middle class people act like the problem has been solved, and roll their eyes, meanwhile in Arkansas, and in every Wal Mart across the nation...

    It annoys me cuz I grew up in a state where there are still laws regarding where and when it's legal to beat your wife, and the police told my mom with a boyish guffaw that she couldn't be raped by her husband, even though she was.



    Plus, the mens rights activists, I don't even...

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Because that's a matter of opinion entirely. You think that fixing issues that "matter" would make the world a better place. To me, if the mentality of society doesn't change to prevent things from occurring in the first place, any efforts made will be for naught.

    Is the priority of people starving in the world, on a global scale, much more important than whether or not strangers I don't care about treat women equally in the world? Absolutely.

    But we all pick and choose our battles. It is human nature. To accept anything else is to deny what is. You don't see this as an issue because, honestly, you don't have to deal with it at all.

    We (humanity) do what is best for us--because when *we* are at our best, we can help others at our best. Is it better for the family as a whole if I give my sister all of my money because technically I'm spending it on frivolous things while she is struggling financially? Yes. But am I going to do that when I know full and well I won't be happy and doing the things I worked hard to do? No. Because I will build resentment for that. No. Instead, I help her with the absolute most important issues as they come along when I can.. and I ensure I make time for myself in the mean while.

    We cannot help others at full capacity when we ourselves are not at max capacity. (It's the whole love yourself to love others dynamic.) I think if women didn't have so many stressors and worries and aren't beaten down into submission at every turn and gesture.. if our daughters and sisters didn't have to grow up in a world comparing them to supermodels they'll never be, or to the men they weren't born to be, or anything else.. then maybe we'd be getting a whole lot more done on other, more important fronts. There are a lot of girls that do stupid, stupid things and focus and even ruin their lives on the issue of gender inequality. A lot of men needlessly beat on, insult, degrade, and even kill women from social brainwashing on the topic. Imagine if all of those .. just dumb.. things were focused towards literally anything else? Anything at all. Are there other issues as well out there? Yes. But does that make this one less important? No. Not at all.

    I think trivializing this topic by comparing it to another, complex, but completely in a different realm issue is not the answer at all. They're apples to oranges. I mean, if we were going to go that route, if you're so aware of all of these major issues why are you posting on a forum instead of saving the whole world with all of your spare time and energy? Because you're human, and you do things within what you feel to be your realm and scope. (Or you really don't give a shit about any issues.. in which case, why post in here so adamant about fixing more 'important' topics?)
    I think it's fine and proper to care about gender equality in your own country. What I despise is using arguments of gender equality to play victim and use that as an excuse for unfortunate and unsuccessful life circumstances, where in reality, laziness and poor choices led to those circumstances. And of course, there are those who just like to find anything to complain about. I haven't noticed anyone in particular on this forum doing this, but I'm explaining that I have a high index of suspicion for it.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think if women didn't have so many stressors and worries and aren't beaten down into submission at every turn and gesture.
    Really? Women are beaten down into submission at every turn and gesture? I'm not sure if I've ever encountered a single woman who has felt like she is beaten down into submission every single day because she is a woman.

    if our daughters and sisters didn't have to grow up in a world comparing them to supermodels they'll never be, or to the men they weren't born to be,
    Social pressure to conform to a standard is certainly not borne by women alone. Men are under just as much pressure to be financially, physically, and emotionally strong. A woman being unable to provide financially for her family is not seen as being nearly as shameful as a man unable to provide for his family. A woman breaking down and crying is not seen as being nearly as shameful as a man breaking down and crying. A woman being physically weak is not seen as being nearly as shameful as a man being physically weak.

    A lot of men needlessly beat on, insult, degrade, and even kill women from social brainwashing on the topic.
    Again, you're looking at social issues that are not isolated to women. In fact, men are 3x more likely to be murder victims than women.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You obviously don't understand much about how science is done. It is frequently instructive and completely legitimate to read about an experiment, then modify it to learn something different. One must simply state one's methods clearly to show the difference, as I did and you obviously understood.
    What did you learn that was different? The whole issue is about ranking of results.
    Thus you invalidated your results and we leaned nothing at all other than that you like to proclaim your imagined superiority and put other people down, which is old news. Your post was made in bad faith. You continue to act in bad faith by asserting you were acting as a scientist and not as an individual with a petty personal agenda. I don't believe for a moment anyone is daft enough to buy that BS, and neither should you. Ironically, instead of being this paragon of objectivity that you would so like to be seen to be, you are one of those people who seems unable to demonstrate the minimum level of objectivity required to separate the message from the messenger. This is unfortunate, because it makes you seem really inconsistent and not worth taking seriously.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have not lived in Italy myself, but my father's family is from Italy
    Your father family's likely came to American a couple of decades ago. The Italy he knows may not even exist anymore, in many places. Your typical northern italian young man can sometimes even come across as metrosexual rather than macho.

    so I have extensive second-hand knowledge of the situation. Also, if you think my reading on the subject is limited to "a random blog", you assume incorrectly. Due to my family background, I take special interest in the situation in Italy, and see the same kinds of comments coming up in disparate places, from mainstream media, to studies of education in various nations, to the lot of women in STEM fields. I am always saddened to see what is said about Italy. They should know better, but then so should we all.
    You indirectly claimed that the typical aspiration of an italian woman is to be a Berlusconi's velina look-a-like, and the typical aspiration of an Italian man is to be a Berlusconi look-a-like. This is the main point I objected to (not the absence of women in STEM fields! Nor to the absence in equality of pay). You understand how this claim has very little to do with your reply, right? And how it can be rightfully assumed to be second-hand overblown nonsense, if you haven't lived there yourself?
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I would not say that you are imagining things, but some of you seem incredibly frightened when there is no reason to be. And I should add, some of you seem to be very unconfortable with many classic aspects of men's sexuality. And this is especially true for Salomé.
    You are wrong. I'm not frightened of you. Don't confuse distaste with fear.

    Which "aspects of men's sexuality" do you imagine I have a problem with? Given that I have only talked about rape and violence. Are you suggesting that "all men are rapists"? It seems to me that you have been scarred by your experiences with abusive women who just happened to also be radical lesbian feminists.
    There, there. Most feminists don't hate men and want you dead. You don't have to be afraid of us.
    (This being said, I love you both)
    I don't want your love, your respect and some attempt not to be patronising or to tell women what they have a right to complain about will suffice.

    The motto in Salomé's avatar is correct : "If you want to achieve greatness, stop asking for permission".
    Don't presume to interpret that statement for me. I know what it means. How ironic that you can agree in one breath, but in the next think it's your place to tell me what I SHOULD feel about being a woman. It's not your place. Deal with it.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilateral Entry View Post
    Social pressure to conform to a standard is certainly not borne by women alone. Men are under just as much pressure to be financially, physically, and emotionally strong. A woman being unable to provide financially for her family is not seen as being nearly as shameful as a man unable to provide for his family. A woman breaking down and crying is not seen as being nearly as shameful as a man breaking down and crying. A woman being physically weak is not seen as being nearly as shameful as a man being physically weak.
    Exactly. Moreover, this higher expectation of men/lower expectation of women in terms of rationality, self-sufficiency and independence is harmful to women, as it is to men.
    Further, I'd go so far as to say in the US, at least, certain environments are more hostile to boys than they are to girls (e.g., the modern school), and that's not seen as much of a cause for whatever reason.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    Further, I'd go so far as to say in the US, at least, certain environments are more hostile to boys than they are to girls (e.g., the modern school), and that's not seen as much of a cause for whatever reason.
    It may be argued that school is better "tailored" towards girls just because they're socialized to be more rule-abiding, and that's a disadvantage when trying to climb the social or corporate ladder.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It may be argued that school is better "tailored" towards girls just because they're socialized to be more rule-abiding, and that's a disadvantage when trying to climb the social or corporate ladder.
    Corporate ladder, sure. But a corporate ladder is hardly something boys will have to worry about if they drop out of education altogether before they can even be an also-ran.
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I think if women didn't have so many stressors and worries and aren't beaten down into submission at every turn and gesture..
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilateral Entry View Post
    Really? Women are beaten down into submission at every turn and gesture? I'm not sure if I've ever encountered a single woman who has felt like she is beaten down into submission
    Look up, you just encountered one. But you chose to dismiss her experience. Thus reinforcing her point.
    And helpfully explaining why you've "never encountered" another.

    Ah, such riches.

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