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  1. #81
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    But you're missing the point that Miley said that sinead was an inspiration for her video and her look. That's taking it personal and public and its a misrepresentation that sinead has every right to publicly take issue with. She had the right to clarify that for anyone who may have misunderstood what she was about based on Miley's comments. So she was speaking out to set that straight and to help Miley in the best way she knew how or the way she would personally respond to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    Sure and either way is okay with me. I think you can be helpful by being totally blunt and saying look if you're going to align yourself with me let me tell you what I think of what you're doing.

    If I matter to you than so will my perspective and if you're going to make a public statement about it so will I.

    In honor of truth and nothing more. Not to spare your feelings but to put truth out there for you and for anyone listening.

    I just think both could've been accomplished had she had any sort of real respect for sinead. Tho its obvious she was just " trying to be cool" or attach an artist image to herself that never existed.

    Which is not unlike anything she has done... She is trying to identify with shit she thinks makes her look cool but isn't really her.

    Or so it would seem
    I completely agree with just about everything you are saying in this thread. I thought it was completely fine and justified. I do believe Sinead was an inspiration for parts of that video and for her look (hair) to some degree as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    Am I missing the point, or are you? I don't think what she said was fucking dumb. I said that if she were truly trying to help Miley then it was fucking dumb. The point is that she likely didn't write the letter to help her. As you mention, she might have been publicly taking issue with Miley's comparison, and as Coriolis mentioned, she may have also been speaking to a larger audience. It seems clear to me, however, that she wasn't doing this to help Miley. Rather, it was done in spite of her. Does this make sense?
    I don't think it was done in spite of her. I'm sure it's meant as a wake up call for her to think about what she is doing. She might react defensively in the short term but my belief is the message will sink in somewhat in the short term and more as time goes on.

    Also, honesty, it's not doing Miley any real harm. It's only helping her from a PR standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post

    I don't think it was done in spite of her. I'm sure it's meant as a wake up call for her to think about what she is doing. She might react defensively in the short term but my belief is the message will sink in somewhat in the short term and more as time goes on.
    Exactly.

    This is precisely my opinion, and I don't think I could state it any better.

    Is this some sort of FiTe communication thing? I totally believe in the abrupt/honest/accurate comment that might embarrass the target now, cause them to react defensively, but dig deep enough into them that they know it's true, and, over time, will either wise up and learn to make the needed adjustment, or continue to act like a fucking idiot. Whichever course they take, it's on them.

  3. #83
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    If you think that's the place either Lady X or I are coming from, then you clearly haven't understood what we've been saying.
    It's not just that, it's also the complaints that she's not being herself (do you know her personally? If not, how could you possibly judge if she's being herself if you've never spoken to her in real life?) or that she's being unoriginal (so what? If we're gonna hate on people for that we could spend our time hating on 99% of this planet). Or that she's sticking out her tongue too much and that that's making her look like an insecure 12 year old (does a kitty die every time she sticks out her tongue? No. Live and let live). It's simply pathetic to see people hate on someone they don't know personally, because that person behaves in a certain way that doesn't hurt anyone, but is still regarded as immoral for some reason. Well, yeah, I know it can feel awesome to find a twenty year old who you think acts a little annoying and then go hate on them. You know what, I always found Michael Bublé annoying, I should go and hate on Michael Bublé now, I'm sure I'll find some reasons to make hating on Michael Bublé seem like a totally grown-up and rational thing to do. But you know what? I'm not going to hate on Michael Bublé. Sure that his music is annoying and I could find tons of reasons to make him seem like an immoral, sexist asshole, I could say he's giving today's youth a bad example by being fat (making kids today think you can be fat AND famous? How DARE he!), but no. Just no. I don't want to do things I think are pathetic.
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  4. #84
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    It's not just that, it's also the complaints that she's not being herself (do you know her personally? If not, how could you possibly judge if she's being herself if you've never spoken to her in real life?) or that she's being unoriginal (so what? If we're gonna hate on people for that we could spend our time hating on 99% of this planet). Or that she's sticking out her tongue too much and that that's making her look like an insecure 12 year old (does a kitty die every time she sticks out her tongue? No. Live and let live). It's simply pathetic to see people hate on someone they don't know personally, because that person behaves in a certain way that doesn't hurt anyone, but is still regarded as immoral for some reason. Well, yeah, I know it can feel awesome to find a twenty year old who you think acts a little annoying and then go hate on them. You know what, I always found Michael Bublé annoying, I should go and hate on Michael Bublé now, I'm sure I'll find some reasons to make hating on Michael Bublé seem like a totally grown-up and rational thing to do. But you know what? I'm not going to hate on Michael Bublé. Sure that his music is annoying and I could find tons of reasons to make him seem like an immoral, sexist asshole, I could say he's giving today's youth a bad example by being fat (making kids today think you can be fat AND famous? How DARE he!), but no. Just no. I don't want to do things I think are pathetic.
    Can't speak for anyone else, but my critique of Miley has nothing to do with the supposed morality of her actions. I think @Lady X hit it on the head when she spoke to the inauthenticity and the triteness of Miley's displays. Would it help at all if I told you I loved Rihanna every bit that Miley Cyrus bores me to tears?
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  5. #85
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    It's not just that, it's also the complaints that she's not being herself (do you know her personally? If not, how could you possibly judge if she's being herself if you've never spoken to her in real life?) or that she's being unoriginal (so what? If we're gonna hate on people for that we could spend our time hating on 99% of this planet). Or that she's sticking out her tongue too much and that that's making her look like an insecure 12 year old (does a kitty die every time she sticks out her tongue? No. Live and let live). It's simply pathetic to see people hate on someone they don't know personally, because that person behaves in a certain way that doesn't hurt anyone, but is still regarded as immoral for some reason. Well, yeah, I know it can feel awesome to find a twenty year old who you think acts a little annoying and then go hate on them. You know what, I always found Michael Bublé annoying, I should go and hate on Michael Bublé now, I'm sure I'll find some reasons to make hating on Michael Bublé seem like a totally grown-up and rational thing to do. But you know what? I'm not going to hate on Michael Bublé. Sure that his music is annoying and I could find tons of reasons to make him seem like an immoral, sexist asshole, I could say he's giving today's youth a bad example by being fat (making kids today think you can be fat AND famous? How DARE he!), but no. Just no. I don't want to do things I think are pathetic.

    So you don't think that say Miley's appropriation of black culture is inauthentic? Or the rapidity with with her image changed out how it conincidened with the launch of an album?

    Personally, I don't find artistic inauthenticity to be very offensive. The arts are all about communicating ideas. I think promoting things you don't actually value or beilieve in for money is bad.

  6. #86
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    First off, let me just give you props for your response. I think it was much better argued than anything you've said previously in this thread, and actually gave some credibility to your position. I think there's actually something there. And it's respectable. That being said, you're still missing a significant part of the picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    It's not just that, it's also the complaints that she's not being herself (do you know her personally? If not, how could you possibly judge if she's being herself if you've never spoken to her in real life?)...
    Believe it or not, you don't actually need to know someone personally to tell whether they are authentic or not. You can tell, not all the time, but plenty of times, strictly from their behavior. We see enough of Miley's behavior, all the time, that, if we are someone who is able to distinguish that which is authentic from that which is inauthentic, we can pretty easily tell which box she falls into.

    Sinead O'Conner = authentic (always was, always will be)

    Miley Cyrus = inauthentic (always has been, not sure what the future might hold for her [current behavior is not promising, tho])

    Frankly, Miley should be thanking Sinead, as Sinead's "attack" could be the most pivotal factor in finally making her learn to do things authentically, as opposed to "cuz some other pop star did it", or, "because my handlers told me to".

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    ...or that she's being unoriginal (so what? If we're gonna hate on people for that we could spend our time hating on 99% of this planet).
    Have you heard of INTJs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Or that she's sticking out her tongue too much and that that's making her look like an insecure 12 year old (does a kitty die every time she sticks out her tongue? No. Live and let live).
    No, she just looks fucking stupid, and like she thinks what she's doing is cool, but doesn't realize it's actually fucking stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    It's simply pathetic to see people hate on someone they don't know personally, because that person behaves in a certain way that doesn't hurt anyone, but is still regarded as immoral for some reason.
    I'm not even gunna dig into moral or immoral, and, not because I don't think there's interesting ground to mine there, but because...

    ...I'm making my judgments about her tongue-wagging, first and foremost, from an aesthetic place. It looks fucking stupid. How she possibly thinks it looks cool, or hot, or whatever, that it is an aesthetically cool thing to do, I really don't know. Which makes her sense of that which is aesthetically cool come seriously into question. Which, for an ESFP, and an artist, is a pretty bad thing, since that's something one would hope they'd be awesome at. Rihanna (ISFP): that girl, damn, she repeatedly and consistently makes awesome aesthetic choices. Not that she doesn't miss every so often, but 90%+ of the time, she's spot on, and original/cutting edge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Well, yeah, I know it can feel awesome to find a twenty year old who you think acts a little annoying and then go hate on them.
    Believe it or not, I haven't gone looking for this. This Miley Cyrus shit kinda blew up the internet, and I couldn't help but be bombarded by information about it. And, as I said in my original response to you, after finally watching the full performance, a week or two after the fact, I thought most of that internet nonsense was totally overblown. But, that being said, she still looked like an idiot, and her aesthetic judgments are now seriously in question, imo (they were unoriginal before, but that performance was just straight bad -- it wasn't interesting, entertaining, mesmerizing, or attractve -- it was unattractive, uninteresting, and just plain dumb).

    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    You know what, I always found Michael Bublé annoying, I should go and hate on Michael Bublé now, I'm sure I'll find some reasons to make hating on Michael Bublé seem like a totally grown-up and rational thing to do. But you know what? I'm not going to hate on Michael Bublé. Sure that his music is annoying and I could find tons of reasons to make him seem like an immoral, sexist asshole, I could say he's giving today's youth a bad example by being fat (making kids today think you can be fat AND famous? How DARE he!), but no. Just no. I don't want to do things I think are pathetic.
    I'm sorry, I don't know who Michael Buble is.

    I think I heard his name a few years ago, and googled him, but have since forgotten.

    What I will say is that, if he acted like a fucking idiot, you'd have every right to call him out on it.

  7. #87
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Not in response to anybody in particular:

    I really believe Sinéad's letter was well-meaning. And as an Fe person, I think the first letter was rather tactfully written. In short, it's more "Don't let the industry exploit you" than "You suck!".
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  8. #88
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Can't speak for anyone else, but my critique of Miley has nothing to do with the supposed morality of her actions. I think @Lady X hit it on the head when she spoke to the inauthenticity and the triteness of Miley's displays. Would it help at all if I told you I loved Rihanna every bit that Miley Cyrus bores me to tears?
    Just a matter of taste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    So you don't think that say Miley's appropriation of black culture is inauthentic? Or the rapidity with with her image changed out how it conincidened with the launch of an album?

    Personally, I don't find artistic inauthenticity to be very offensive. The arts are all about communicating ideas. I think promoting things you don't actually value or beilieve in for money is bad.
    Or maybe she's just doing what she wants and meanwhile she has some trouble putting it the right way. We don't know.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Just a matter of taste.
    Yes.

    Good taste, and bad taste.


  10. #90
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Not in response to anybody in particular:

    I really believe Sinéad's letter was well-meaning. And as an Fe person, I think the first letter was rather tactfully written. In short, it's more "Don't let the industry exploit you" than "You suck!".
    Speaking of Fi values, I think when Sinead O'Conner won the Grammy in 1990, she boycotted the awards ceremony because of something to do with a protest related to materialism in the music industry. When Miley mentioned her being an inspiration, I'm sure it tripped a reaction based on a core value about something she feels very strongly about, thus the motivation for the letter.

    Then she went on Saturday Night live later and was banned from the show for tearing up a picture of the pope, which has nothing to do with anything but is kind of interesting.

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