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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I just think it's unfortunate that she didn't go about it in a more tactful way...
    On behalf of Fi users: we don't care.

  2. #52
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    On behalf of Fi users: we don't care.
    If the public to which O'Connor shared this letter were exclusively Fi user (and supposing it's true that no Fi users would see this as putting Cyrus in an awkward position which would make it difficult for her to hear the message in it...), then I wouldn't have an opinion about it either. eta: I'm looking at 'useful/not useful' here, nothing more.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    If the public to which O'Connor shared this letter were exclusively Fi user (and supposing it's true that no Fi users would see this as putting Cyrus in an awkward position which would make it difficult for her to hear the message in it...), then I wouldn't have an opinion about it either.
    So, since Fe users exist, we Fi users must subject ourselves to your values/imperatives?

    How very kind and thoughtful of you.

  4. #54
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I haven't been paying close attention to the whole ordeal, I've pretty much only read Sinead's first letter and skimmed the contents of this thread. This all reminds me of what happened after Fiona Apple released this video for Criminal though.



    I'm going on memory here, but (if memory serves correctly) when she accepted the award for this video she gave a "this is bullshit" speech (which wasn't anywhere as typical then as it is now) and later very strongly expressed the opinion that she regretted making the video. She was pretty outspoken about how pressured she was into putting forth this particular image, and that she regretted it for many reasons. [Anyone else remember this?]
    Yes, I recall that and thought it was very bizarre at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I think O'Connor knows what she's talking about, is my point. I just think it's unfortunate that she didn't go about it in a more tactful way, I think her approach did her a disservice (maybe an open editorial- but the open letter to Cyrus is....awkward/melodramatic).
    I think the first letter was pretty tactful. It's not really just about Miley Cyrus, which is why this is better as an open letter. Her second letter - that could have been a bit better though.

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  5. #55
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yes, I recall that and thought it was very bizarre at the time.
    My respect for her went off the charts for it. Lol. (eta: In a good way, I mean. I already kinda liked her music- but had a lot of respect for her speaking out, for the very same reason I respect O'Connors attempt here.) I think(?) she was anorexic herself when younger, and so she understood directly the effect those kinds of videos have on young girls watching them.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think the first letter was pretty tactful. It's not really just about Miley Cyrus, which is why this is better as an open letter. Her second letter - that could have been a bit better though.
    Maybe tactful is the wrong word. It seems weird/passive-aggressive to write a letter to Miley Cyrus, and to present that letter publicly. Because it seems like common sense to me that if I really cared about the individual- I'd send the letter privately AND make some public op ed making all the same points. There's something about making the letter personal and yet posting it publicly which somehow makes it seem like it's less about concern for Cyrus herself and far more about spreading the message that there's effed up pressure on young women to "prostitute" themselves to make the most money (which benefits other people more than it benefits the young woman).

    But this has come up before (God help me, I can't believe I'm going to delve into Fe/Fi here) and Fi people seem to not have a problem with the public shaming? Or something? It just seems like common sense to me that if you point this kind of thing out in front of millions of people....of course the person you're saying it about is going to react a little more defensively and not be able to hear it as well. I mean- I'd even think it was different if she gave Cyrus some kind of heads up, like "I'm going to post this publicly tomorrow. Brace yourself."

    eta #2: But then, maybe O'Connor knows something about the mindset of being famous that I don't, maybe her approach really did seem to be the most effective way to get Cyrus (the individual) to consider what she had to say. All I know is that it came across to me more as a PSA than an actual plea to the individual.....so it was weird that it was dressed up as the latter?


    eta: and someone give Zarathrustra a hug or something, sounds like he's feeling pretty oppressed.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    eta: and someone give Zarathrustra a hug or something, sounds like he's feeling pretty oppressed.
    Nah.

    I just find your values disgusting.

  7. #57
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    ...and your ignore function isn't working, or what?
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  8. #58
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    If she really wanted what's best for Miley, she shouldn't have written such a letter publicly. I think her approach was either fucking retarded or motivated by something else.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #59
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    If she really wanted what's best for Miley, she shouldn't have written such a letter publicly. I think her approach was either fucking retarded or motivated by something else.
    I suspect, the fact that she wasn't addressing Miley alone, but rather pointing out broader issues in the entertainment industry, their fans, and popular culture as a whole.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    ...and your ignore function isn't working, or what?
    Have never used it, and don't plan on it.

    Plus, I'm an Fi user: apparently I call this shit out publicly.

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