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  1. #161
    amateur cartographer kquirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    There are two images that were posted on other threads that I don't have time to track down right now. One was a cartoon showing on one side, a woman in a burka; on the other side, a woman in very revealing western attire. The caption asked something like "which woman is oppressed?" In both cases, it's all about control. Men expecting women to take it all off is no different from expecting them to cover it all up.
    Let's pump the brakes on this. Whatever your view of gender equality, it's misleading and disrespectful to equate perceived oppression in America to the plight of women in other parts of the world, whether it involves covering every square inch of their body, being banned from driving or going to school, or living in fear of stoning for posing in nude photos, having an affair, or being raped.
    5w6 - 9w8 - 3w2

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  2. #162
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kquirk View Post
    Let's pump the brakes on this. Whatever your view of gender equality, it's misleading and disrespectful to equate perceived oppression in America to the plight of women in other parts of the world, whether it involves covering every square inch of their body, being banned from driving or going to school, or living in fear of stoning for posing in nude photos, having an affair, or being raped.
    It is all a matter of degree, and rooted in the same fundamental notions about gender roles.

    Interestingly, female attendance at universities increased in Iran after the revolution, which also ushered in requirements for islamic dress. This was because the more rural and conservative families felt more comfortable sending their daughters off to study. So, in which setting were women actually better off? The situation is more complex than your comment acknowledges.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Should I conclude from the exposed skin disparity, then, that men don't want to appear attractive to women?
    we do - it's just that the way to do that seem to revolve more around expressing status then expressing physical fitness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What amazes me is that even in situations where sexual attractiveness is not supposed to be a factor (e.g. political conventions or business meetings), "professionally attired" women can get away with far more exposed skin than men, and choose to do so. It just makes me cold to look at.
    when i was in NA that was certainly true, and honestly i found it frustrating from the reverse PoV - it seems like the only choice you have is tie color.

    here - probably because of the combination of cultural factors & warmer climate - the expectation of professional clothing is closer to the american standard of business-casual, which includes the sort-of-expected options of rolling up your sleeves and/or showing some chest hair (i guess whether that actually has any effect depends on who)...

    women still have the added option of showing legs i suppose - i doubt i could get away with wearing a toga to a professional environment (or.. could i? hmm...)

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    That's what she said. HEY-YO!!!
    For your future use: http://www.hiyoooo.com/

  5. #165
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    For your future use: http://www.hiyoooo.com/
    You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  6. #166
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    when i was in NA that was certainly true, and honestly i found it frustrating from the reverse PoV - it seems like the only choice you have is tie color.

    here - probably because of the combination of cultural factors & warmer climate - the expectation of professional clothing is closer to the american standard of business-casual, which includes the sort-of-expected options of rolling up your sleeves and/or showing some chest hair (i guess whether that actually has any effect depends on who)...

    women still have the added option of showing legs i suppose - i doubt i could get away with wearing a toga to a professional environment (or.. could i? hmm...)
    Perhaps not a toga, but how about bermuda shorts, or even a kilt? Men's options are very restrictive in western professional settings. I would actually prefer that situation at work, as long as the customary attire were comfortable. I don't want to waste time on figuring out what to wear every day, and don't want to be judged for it, provided I look neat and professional. That was one nice thing about being in the military.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
    My grandfather says "You're a gentleman and a scholar, and a good judge of horse flesh."



    (also for your future use: )

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Perhaps not a toga, but how about bermuda shorts, or even a kilt? Men's options are very restrictive in western professional settings. I would actually prefer that situation at work, as long as the customary attire were comfortable. I don't want to waste time on figuring out what to wear every day, and don't want to be judged for it, provided I look neat and professional. That was one nice thing about being in the military.
    that's interesting, because a lot of women seem to try to overcome that restriction - at least here - a lot of women take their uniforms to tailors to have them form fitted, it's very common (& technically destruction of military property, but for years nobody cared).

    we had a little scandal on that in my base - and at one point the commander (presumably after he got attacked by an ass crack) decided to not let any women wearing form fitted uniforms in while in the same time considering it unregistered leave (so they could get military jail time if they didn't come in)... over half of the base was standing outside trying to call whatever men where inside to get them new uniforms.

    even after that - our telecom officer started coming in with "entrance uniforms" and going straight to the locker room to change into her form fitted ones, and so did many others.

  9. #169
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    that's interesting, because a lot of women seem to try to overcome that restriction - at least here - a lot of women take their uniforms to tailors to have them form fitted, it's very common (& technically destruction of military property, but for years nobody cared).
    That's ridiculous. On the other hand, I would be bothered if they were not properly fitting, but our uniform shop had its own tailor who would do the fittings at no cost. Of course the objective was tailoring "off the shelf" items for people who didn't match up to standard sizes, not form-fitting for personal tastes. I was lucky that things fit me mostly well, but used to add linings to my trousers, though, since I didn't like how the fabric felt. Modifying uniforms wasn't forbidden, as long as the result conformed to regulations.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    That's ridiculous. On the other hand, I would be bothered if they were not properly fitting, but our uniform shop had its own tailor who would do the fittings at no cost. Of course the objective was tailoring "off the shelf" items for people who didn't match up to standard sizes, not form-fitting for personal tastes. I was lucky that things fit me mostly well, but used to add linings to my trousers, though, since I didn't like how the fabric felt. Modifying uniforms wasn't forbidden, as long as the result conformed to regulations.
    we had that too (not in base, but they could place an order)... though i don't think the point of taking the uniforms to a private tailor was too make things more comfortable - it was to make the uniforms more "fashionable" & sexually appealing.

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