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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    For real? I ask because I generally like tough love. What would be a more effective way of communicating the same message to you?
    Tough love is no more or no less effective than anything else really. If I don't want to hear what someone has to say, I'll either flounce or ignore it until I come to my senses depending on how they phrase it.

  2. #132
    amateur cartographer kquirk's Avatar
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    I wish we could get back to the good old days, when Britney Spears, Madonna, Jim Morrison, and Elvis Presley were making a name for themselves without any references to or exploitation of their sexuality.
    5w6 - 9w8 - 3w2

    Words are wind.

  3. #133
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Also stay impersonal with advice. It gives people the distance to evaluate what your saying and the illusion they're choosing to do something rather than just doing what you say.

  4. #134
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I do agree with @nicolita and @senza tema that a public declaration of your stupidity isn't really the easiest thing to respond gracefully to, and that it was perhaps unfair to Miley in some ways, but at the same time, I do think O'Connor voiced what a lot of us have been thinking. I think perhaps a private note would have been a better way to go about it, but who knows if it would have actually ever reached Miley's ears.

    I will be interested to see the fallout of it all. I do think Miley made a huge mistake in her response, and is currently reaping the negative consequence of that. I hope she publicly apologizes for her mockery of mental illness, and gets back on track to being a positive role model and singer. I think she was a pretty positive role model to young girls when she was doing the Hannah Montana thing and I hope she can reintegrate that side of herself. It almost seems like she's swung wide in an attempt to get as far from being the blonde, innocent, covert Hannah to edgy, provocative, exposed Miley. I think the real truth of her lies somewhere in between. The backyard sessions videos seem to hit on it. She's still raw and heavy and sensual but not profane or hypersexualized.

    I actually like her Wrecking Ball video in some ways... it shows that open pain and is interesting in how she's got the sexualized image but the song is about a broken down relationship, so it draws the picture of Miley clearly wanting a relationship and that sexual connection but being stuck with the cold hard wrecking objects and the concrete walls breaking down because she fucked it up. I think it could have done with less tongue and butt but I appreciate the overall and it seems relevant to her current situation as a whole. She has been directed for a long time - her parents, the industry, etc. - and I think she's still trying to figure out how to get what she personally wants. Maybe what she's going through now is akin to standard teenage rebellion, of divorcing one's identity from what one has been shaped to be, albeit a few years later than usual and on a very public stage. The question is... what does she want?

    IRT another open letter, it does seem like "open letters" have become a thing now. I'm not sure I like them. They seem a bit too much like publicity stunts. I don't think that is generally the intention but that seems to be what it turns into.

  5. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Just finished reading that article, and couldn't have agreed with it more. The thing I find most offensive about all of this is just how positively boring it all is. I mean, for all the ink spilled on the subject of Miley Cyrus, who really gives a fuck? Her music is mediocre, and she's playing out a trope that's been done (and done better) countless times before.
    I was wondering if I would have to say this. <3 Rexy.
    Dirt Farmer

  6. #136
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know, I think it's interesting because Miley is a very public figure and someone that had been a role model to many young girls. So when she changes radically... that is a huge group of people who have been impacted. Especially young, malleable people.

    I don't think everyone "ought" to be interested in it - I don't care - but I think it is culturally relevant and no less worth discussion than many other topics.

    In contrast, I really like Lorde for her artistry. She seems both down to earth and aesthetic. I know some of that is her age and lack of previous exposure to the media industry but it sure is pleasing.


  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    So let's say that next year st the VMAs or whatever we'd see, let's say, Justin Timberlake on stage in only a nude thong, grinding his ass up to a fully clothed Rihanna's crotch and sticking out his tongue. And a week later, Justin Timberlake would appear in a video where he dances around in a DIY store, butt naked, humping a drill and making out with a sander. Just think about that idea, imagine what it would be like. Do you have it? Now tell me, do you have any problem with Justin Timberlake 'acting slutty' and 'behaving like a prostitute' and 'showing off his body that should only be used by him and his girlfriend'?

    I mean seriously, pipe the fuck down.
    Ha ha. I'd think he was an idiot and that it was gross. Same as with Miley. I don't think she's a slut or whatever. I just think it's dumb and tacky. Not my thing, for sure. And the point is, Justin Timberlake DOESN'T do that. Women do it. Why?

    I think Sinead takes way too preachy of a tone. I get what she's saying, but it seems it could have been better put. And private. I hate how everything is public with celebrities.

    I just try to stay away from all of this as much as possible. But it's a weird thing, for sure. So it's hard not to pay some attention to it.

    And yes, @Z Buck McFate, I thought about the situation with Fiona Apple too. And I think what she said was awesome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    But this has come up before (God help me, I can't believe I'm going to delve into Fe/Fi here) and Fi people seem to not have a problem with the public shaming? Or something? It just seems like common sense to me that if you point this kind of thing out in front of millions of people....of course the person you're saying it about is going to react a little more defensively and not be able to hear it as well. I mean- I'd even think it was different if she gave Cyrus some kind of heads up, like "I'm going to post this publicly tomorrow. Brace yourself."
    No this is just immature Fi, not Fi in general.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Unsolicited advice. I have done zero research on this scandal, but I saw a write-up about it this morning and thought of this thread. Live and let live y'all.

    http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/...icited-advice/
    Have you watched the performance?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Even so, unless I'm seeking advice, I'm not going I respond well to a list of things I'm doing wrong and suggestions to stop. If she and Miley had a friendship and Miley had gone crying to her about her recent negative publicity or something, that's a different story. But I relate a lot to the sentiment expressed in that article. As a young woman, I made plenty of mistakes, but I never once listened to someone just coming down on me without having expressed any dissatisfaction with my own situation.
    I don't see how your obstinance to stay on the wrong path is reason for a wiser person to not try and get you to see the wrongness of the path you're on, though.

    If my kid is 8 yrs old and starting to drink booze and smoke, I'm going to stop him and do whatever I can to communicate why that is a bad path to go down.

    And if his response is basically Eric Cartman screaming, "I do what I want!", I'd probably slap him and ground him for a month.

    There are bad paths, and to warn someone when they are going down one is not the problem.

    The problem is the ignorant, immature hardhead who doesn't realize they're going down the wrong path.

    Not to mention the ignorant, immature hardhead who is not honest enough with themself to objectively evaluate whether some advice they've received might actually be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I think Sinead offers plenty of good advice but if I were Miley and I were given that kind of tough love in public, I would flounce too. TBH, I think I'd probably still be upset and react poorly even if it had been conveyed in private but it would probably be less flouncy.

    The mental illness crack was just way too low though.
    I don't get this lack of self-honesty.

    I mean, I applaud you for at least having the self-honesty and self-objectivity to realize you are this way.

    But I don't get the acceptance of oneself as such, without the concomitant desire to eliminate an obviously negative trait from oneself. It's like you'd rather shove your head in the sand and continue along the wrong path than honestly evaluate yourself, figure out whether what has been said of you is true, or the ways and degrees to which it is true or not true, and then eliminate any of the bad things you discover about yourself that might be true.

    / In possibly related news, I am earnestly considering whether my tritype might actually be 614

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    And the point is, Justin Timberlake DOESN'T do that. Women do it. Why?
    Exactly.

  10. #140
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kquirk View Post
    I wish we could get back to the good old days, when Britney Spears, Madonna, Jim Morrison, and Elvis Presley were making a name for themselves without any references to or exploitation of their sexuality.


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    In contrast, I really like Lorde for her artistry. She seems both down to earth and aesthetic. I know some of that is her age and lack of previous exposure to the media industry but it sure is pleasing.

    Another point for Team Lorde as the anti-Miley.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

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