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  1. #101
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Do you actually enjoy Miley Cyrus or has the conversation just struck to close to home for you?
    Like her as a person, not particularly fond of her works. Strongly dislike how the public needs to find something to complain about whenever something they're not especially fond of turns popular. And how the public needs to react prudish about everything they see, because to me prudishness stands for denying yourself or other (sexual) freedom.
    Ewww is the new sexy


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  2. #102
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Holy Christ. Why do you guys care so much about this? It's one media whore against another. Let them die in silence.
    I just think its an interesting discussion on human behavior.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    I just think its an interesting discussion on human behavior.
    Yeah, I would usually refrain from such matters, but this case was too much the pinnacle of everything wrong with our modern culture and the entertainment industry. I see it as a death knell/turning point. Or at least I hope it is. I would love to see what Camille Paglia has to say about it. Oh, heh, just googled. She did write something. <3 Camille:

    Camille Paglia: Miley, Go Back to School

    Cyrus’ derivative stunt reveals an artistically bankrupt music culture

    By Camille Paglia Aug. 27, 2013
    710 Comments


    Miley Cyrus and Robin Thicke perform "Blurred Lines" during the 2013 MTV Video Music Awards in New York City on Aug. 25, 2013

    Follow @TIMEIdeas

    “Disgusting!” “Raunchy!” “Desperate!” So went the scathing reviews that poured in after once wholesome Disney star Miley Cyrus’ recent bizarre performance at the MTV Video Music Awards.

    Bopping up and down the catwalk in hair-twist devil’s horns and a flesh-colored latex bikini, Cyrus lewdly wagged her tongue, tickled her crotch with a foam finger, shook her buttocks in the air and spanked a 6-ft. 7-in. black burlesque queen.

    Most of the media backlash focused on Cyrus’ crass opportunism, which stole the show from Lady Gaga, normally no slouch in the foot-stamping look-at-me department. But the real scandal was how atrocious Cyrus’ performance was in artistic terms. She was clumsy, flat-footed and cringingly unsexy, an effect heightened by her manic grin.

    How could American pop have gotten this bad? Sex has been a crucial component of the entertainment industry since the seductive vamps of silent film and the bawdy big mamas of roadhouse blues. Elvis Presley, James Brown and Mick Jagger brought sizzling heat to rock, soul and funk music, which in turn spawned the controversial raw explicitness of urban hip-hop.

    (MORE: Miley Cyrus Really Is the Girl Next Door: Predictable and Boring)

    The Cyrus fiasco, however, is symptomatic of the still heavy influence of Madonna, who sprang to world fame in the 1980s with sophisticated videos that were suffused with a daring European art-film eroticism and that were arguably among the best artworks of the decade. Madonna’s provocations were smolderingly sexy because she had a good Catholic girl’s keen sense of transgression. Subversion requires limits to violate.

    Young performers will probably never equal or surpass the genuine shocks delivered by the young Madonna, as when she sensually rolled around in a lacy wedding dress and thumped her chest with the mic while singing “Like a Virgin” at the first MTV awards show in 1984. Her influence was massive and profound, on a global scale.

    But more important, Madonna, a trained modern dancer, was originally inspired by work of tremendous quality — above all, Marlene Dietrich’s glamorous movie roles as a bisexual blond dominatrix and Bob Fosse’s stunningly forceful strip-club choreography for the 1972 film Cabaret, set in decadent Weimar-era Berlin. Today’s aspiring singers, teethed on frenetically edited small-screen videos, rarely have direct contact with those superb precursors and are simply aping feeble imitations of Madonna at 10th remove.

    Pop is suffering from the same malady as the art world, which is stuck on the tired old rubric that shock automatically confers value. But those once powerful avant-garde gestures have lost their relevance in our diffuse and technology-saturated era, when there is no longer an ossified high-culture establishment to rebel against. On the contrary, the fine arts are alarmingly distant or marginal to most young people today.

    (MORE: 4 Reasons You’re Still Hearing About Miley Cyrus’ VMAs Performance)

    Unfortunately, the media spotlight so cheaply won by Cyrus will inevitably spur repeats of her silly stunt, by her and others. Image and profile now rule the music industry. At a time when profits are coming far more from touring than from CD sales, performers are being hammered too early into a marketable formula for cavernous sports venues. With their massive computerized lighting and special-effects systems, arena shows make improvisation impossible and stifle the natural rapport with the audience that performers once had in vaudeville houses and jazz clubs. There is neither time nor space to develop emotional depth or creative skills.

    Pop is an artistic tradition that deserves as much respect as any other. Its lineage stretches back to 17th century Appalachian folk songs and African-American blues, all of which can still be heard vibrating in the lyrics and chord structure of contemporary music. But our most visible young performers, consumed with packaging and attitude, seem to have little sense of that thrilling continuity and therefore no confidence in how it can define and sustain their artistic identities over the course of a career.

    What was perhaps most embarrassing about Miley Cyrus’ dismal gig was its cutesy toys — a giant teddy bear from which she popped to cavort with a dance troupe in fuzzy bear drag. Intended to satirize her Disney past, it signaled instead the childishness of Cyrus’ notion of sexuality, which has become simply a cartoonish gimmick to disguise a lack of professional focus. Sex isn’t just exposed flesh and crude gestures. The greatest performers, like Madonna in a canonical video such as “Vogue,” know how to use suggestion and mystery to project the magic of sexual allure. Miley, go back to school!
    http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/27/pop...onna-to-miley/

  4. #104
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Also comebackgirl... It's not about nakedness or sexuality. If someone wnts to own their sexuality and work that shit go for it. I don't care but I will have an opinion on rather or not I think it's done tastefully and awesome or not. I have opinions about art, literature, films etc too

    If its put out there I get to critique it if I choose. Buckowski is one of my favorites and he's totally raw and vulgar... But interesting and speaking about something.

    Grace jones can be naked an awesome all day and I wouldn't call it distasteful.

    It's about delivery and IMO Miley's sucks.

  5. #105
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Wow, I really take issue with the idea that anyone who criticizes MC for anything is being a stuck-up prude who wants to limit people's sexuality. I didn't think the VMA performance was bad because it was sexual. I thought it was bad because... it was bad. Especially the racial appropriation and use of black women as props. I did think it was crappy that MC got all the heat and Robin Thicke got none (especially when none of it was probably either of their idea), but it is a little more nuanced than you're portraying it, ComebackGirl. We're not terrorists who hate Miley for her freedom.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    It's about delivery and IMO Miley's sucks.
    Word.

  7. #107
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    Hey hey hey....

    At least we can all agree that she has a bangin body.

  8. #108
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Her body's lovely. I'm not sure about her leotard choices, though.

  9. #109
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeback Girl View Post
    Like her as a person, not particularly fond of her works. Strongly dislike how the public needs to find something to complain about whenever something they're not especially fond of turns popular. And how the public needs to react prudish about everything they see, because to me prudishness stands for denying yourself or other (sexual) freedom.
    I don't agree with any of this. If you read the Jezebel article that @Ivy and I were talking about earlier in the thread, part of the rationale about why Miley's whole persona is so ridiculous is that people are hyper exposed to sexuality in Western culture. You can see a chick with much better tits than Miley Cyrus' get fucked in pretty much any orifice basically on demand, and we're supposed to care about the VMAs? It's insulting. No one is scandalized here. No one is anti-sex here. As far as you are concerned, the majority of the of the people in this thread are virtual fuckin connoisseurs of T&A, which (if you'd noticed) is why the conversation has largely hinged on aesthetics rather than morality.

    No one gives two shits about some twenty something white girl shaking her ass in some wrong-headed attempt to be sexy or provocative. We've seen it (and so much more) and we are not entertained. What else does Miley have to say for herself is my question. When Madonna did it, it was the first time anyone had seen something like it. It was bold and impeccably done. Even before she went s&m, Madonna lambasted the whole culture of 80s materialism while building an empire off of fans who were too fucking stupid to get the joke. It was that kind of genius and acumen that made her widely heralded as one of the greats.

    My point is that no one is faulting Miley for being a sexual being or expressing her whatever. It's more like, you make your body public domain, then don't be surprised if people have something to say about the scenery. It's natural. What would be fucked up is if she had had some sex tape published without her knowledge, or some nude pic she'd sent to Liam Hemsworth or whomever. Judging her for things that were intended for private consumption, but became public, is not fair. But that's a sight different than looking at the topless pics she did for Terry Richardson and saying, "Meh, call me when Kate Upton's back on set." She's chosen to make herself a commodity, and there are consequences that accompany that choice. Maybe more than she had realized when she consented to it, but there it is. Such are the rules of the game.

    That was the point of Sinead O'Connor's letter: you disrespect yourself, you invite disrespect. Miley Cyrus didn't have to play the game. A perfect counterpoint to her and her bullshit is Lorde, who not only manages to exude a frankly sensual persona (whilst remaining clothed, I might add), but handed Miley's ass to her on the charts when they're albums debuted the same week. For someone who's only 16, Lordes' stuff is pretty fucking good, and she's without question won my respect as an artist.

    Anyways. In conclusion, @Lady X:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post

    It's about delivery and IMO Miley's sucks.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  10. #110
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Default Three Recent Female Pop Artists who Are Making Music Sexier than a Naked Miley Cyrus





    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

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