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  1. #31
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We take free health care for granted and it works.

  2. #32
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    In news related to ObamaCare's effect on part-time vs full-time employment (from Forbes): Wal-Mart Returning To Full-Time Workers-Obamacare Not Such A Job Killer After All. (Granted, this is on the level of a big anecdote, empirically.)

  3. #33
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    I guess what many Americans are afraid of is "having to give their tax dollars away". Its an abstract principle which shows absolutely no concern for the fact that if you're poor, you have to let your family die from health problems that can otherwise be paid for.

  4. #34
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I guess what many Americans are afraid of is "having to give their tax dollars away". Its an abstract principle which shows absolutely no concern for the fact that if you're poor, you have to let your family die from health problems that can otherwise be paid for.
    Many people don't realize that we pay, one way or another, and often benefit from economies of scale when we pool our resources together. In my old town, trash pickup was paid through property taxes. In my current town, it is paid directly by the residents to the trash collection company of their choice. As a result, we have 3 different companies travelling the same streets each week to collect trash, rather than a single company who won a contract for 2-3 years. Wasteful, and no cost savings to the average resident or business owner.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What's an outlier - the space industry?
    Healthcare professionals in our location versus those in others. Looks like we might not be so much of an outlier after all.
    I have several friends involved in health care - a physician for the VA, an audiologist, and several nurses. They have spoken mainly about the uncertainty, but all are in favor of anything that improves access for more people, even if there are growing pains in the process. The audiologist in particular is familiar with the billing nightmare of the current system, as she is involved in management of her practice as well. In fact, her education is in audiology and speech pathology, and she switched from the second to the first early in her career, because medicare/medicaid and many insurers were drastically cutting back the amount of speech therapy they would authorize. Another example of how in the existing system, decisions are made based on who pays what, not who needs what and who benefits. I'm not sure how if at all the ACA addresses this specific issue.
    Looks as though all involved are concerned about the short-term uncertainty, and that any substantial changes rattle feathers in any industry. The short term effects are mostly the subject of my conversations with the professionals around here. I do wonder how the professionals around here feel about the long term--quite possibly, they're the same as those around you.

    Several people on this thread have mentioned such a course of action. [...]
    So, ignorance and a lack of close reading of the thread.

    I assumed that the code was much less flexible than it is. Again, here's to hoping that it can be ironed out, whether through authority properly delegated or amendments passed..

  6. #36
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü™ View Post
    I don't know about you, but I don't think I should be forced to pay for insurance.
    I know; I've said the same thing about car insurance and credit score ratings. Still trying to reconcile with this "society" thing.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #37
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Well I can tell you one thing that is bad, the damn site (healthcare.gov) never works. It is always fucking up.

  8. #38
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü™ View Post
    I don't know about you, but I don't think I should be forced to pay for insurance. I'd rather use that monthly $200 "affordable" health insurance to buy video games. I never needed to see a doctor, because I feel fine, so why should I get it?

    I'm all in favor of the shutdown if it meant eliminating Obamacare. I have enough bills to pay.
    The problem with this line of thinking of course is that I'm paying for those uninsured people indirectly right now when they get sick and end up going to the ER because they have no insurance.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  9. #39
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    It makes it more expensive to run a business.

    It was passed using extreme measures (ie the reconciliation process) to get around the filibuster on a strait party line vote.

    The American public was never asked if they wanted this. Obama was elected on the hope and change wave, there was no mention of a fundamental health care over hall before he got in office. He was elected on the assumption that the economy would be his top priority. Instead, he (being the savvy political operator he is) saw the opportunity to pass the biggest piece of liberal wet dream legislation in generations and went for it. I would wonder how campaigning on a promise to force every one to buy healthcare would have worked out for him in '08.

    It raises taxes on those who have already had their taxes raised.

    It funnels benefits to the half of the country that voted for Obama, and forces the other half to pay for them.

    It doesn't bend down the cost curve (it's whole reason for existence).

    It masks its inability to lower costs by shifting the burden to young invincibles who can ill afford it in the current economic environment.

    It doesn't address the flaws at the heart of our health care system. Where is the Doc fix, and Tort reform, and consumer leverage against insurers?

    Its language reflects the will of at most half of the country. There was never an attempt to include Republican input in its creation.

    There was never a discussion with the American people about what role we would like the government to play in health care.

    Surely there are problems in our health care system and they need to be addressed, but with any kind of reform this large, the representatives of the entire voting public need to be involved in constructing the legislation.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I guess what many Americans are afraid of is "having to give their tax dollars away". Its an abstract principle which shows absolutely no concern for the fact that if you're poor, you have to let your family die from health problems that can otherwise be paid for.
    The ER can't turn people away.

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