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  1. #321
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    That magic is called "legitimacy", a basic condition for governing according to wikipedia. When a people decide they like one group of gun toting thugs more than all the other groups of gun toting thugs, they call them a government. As you say, it is quite normal. If a government loses its legitimacy then it should, and probably will be replaced with a new group of gun toting thugs, unless there is some magical third option that you will reveal to me in a condescending manner after casually dismissing each of my points (I assume this is where you are going with these annoying hypothetical situations, it's just getting a bit too abstract for me).
    So this "legitimacy" you speak of... you suggest that it is determined by whether the gun-toting thugs are sufficiently "liked"?

    Liked by who?

    The majority?

    And if the majority still likes them, do their actions continue being "legitimate", no matter how horrific?

    Is that how it works?

  2. #322
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    And who would that service be purchased from? The road owner of course.

    (until relatively late in the history of the US, most roads were privately owned turnpikes)
    I do not understand your point. The road owner is not the user; he is a singular entity with control over his resource. That control over the resource is sub-optimal as it does not proscribe free access (eg: allowing freedom of movement). That's in addition to the sub-optimal resource allocation due to single-link networks being natural monopolies.

  3. #323
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    I do not understand your point.
    You don't understand that roads could be privately owned?

  4. #324
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    I'm watching the cost of living increase for everybody in the US (except the rich who won't feel it) in order to pay for someone's grandma's heart surgery.

    Britain has hospitals for the rich and hospitals for the poor. I wonder why? Britain health care is divided on the issue of being able to publicly afford short-term health care costs vs. long-term health care costs. Britain can't seem to afford both at the same time, off of the same taxpayer money. Britains and Canadians complain about the long wait times at ERs, and the long waiting list for surgeries. Obama himself stated that ACA will require rationing of health care; but when the libs are reminded of this fact, they claim there has always been rationing. But believing that would require a huge stretching of the definition of 'rationing,' which is to control the allotted amount of a limited resource. Of course every resource is limited, but usually there is enough to go around at any given time and therefore rationing is not required. Not under normal circumstances. But when governments are involved, it seems the demand always outpaces supply. This is because governments give the appearance of having unlimited resources (in the case of ACA, unlimited altruism), and therefore it plays right into the hands of the greedy (q.v., the US housing crisis debacle of 5 or 6 years ago). This was a case of charity gone mad because the government was involved, thus giving the impression of unlimited resources, and the greedy took advantage of the lower interest rates in the market for new houses. The value of houses plummeted, as well it should have since government "stimulation" always has that effect (see 1929). And the 'bubble' burst as it always does. And libs didn't learn from history, as they never do.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #325
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Who is "they" in the case of ACA? American soldiers fighting on the front lines? No. It's some stranger's grandma who needs a million dollar heart surgery so she can live another year.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #326
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    So this "legitimacy" you speak of... you suggest that it is determined by whether the gun-toting thugs are sufficiently "liked"?

    Liked by who?

    The majority?

    And if the majority still likes them, do their actions continue being "legitimate", no matter how horrific?

    Is that how it works?
    I'm gonna go with no that's not how it works. I linked to the article on legitimacy, you are free to read it and figure that out for yourself.
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  7. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    "Important necessary stuff" is great.

    You neglected however, to justify theft and force as necessary to provide them.

    Why are theft and force necessary to provide them?
    I disagree with the characterization of the government's methods as "theft and force", but to answer the meat of your question, these methods are required because of isolationist libertarians such as yourself who would find general decency insufficient motivation.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  8. #328
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Obamacare deals blow to one-doctor medicine

    "Yet already the law, coming on top of previous legislation, is speeding the demise of an American small-business institution; the one-doctor medical practice."

    "Government cost controls steadily eroded revenues while simultaneously boosting costs, by stacking on requirements for paperwork and accounting."

    "doctors who see patients under Medicare and Medi-Cal programs have been forced by the phase-in of a 2009 federal "stimulus" law to install expensive, complex software systems that sharply reduce time for patients."

    "Margaret Moir has a file full of outrages. One bill went out in 2009 for $450 to Medi-Cal, the state-federal program for the poor that generally pays less than Medicare. Last month — four years later — a check arrived for $61.72."

    This is why doctors across the nation should revolt against Obamacare and Medicaid/Medi-Cal and stop seeing patients who are on these plans.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post


    Who is "they" in the case of ACA? American soldiers fighting on the front lines? No. It's some stranger's grandma who needs a million dollar heart surgery so she can live another year.
    Interestingly, I saw that photo before I saw who the poster was and it struck me as an argument in favor of the ACA. I read "they" as insurance companies and I read the intended audience for the poster as people who were uninsured. It definitely makes a point on behalf of both sides of the argument.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  10. #330
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    I disagree with the characterization of the government's methods as "theft and force",
    You disagree?

    Or you don't want to be honest about something because it makes your uncomfortable?

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