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  1. #221
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    Health care is rationed here -- by ability to pay, or get someone else (i.e. insurance) to pay. It seems at least as logical to ration based on ability to benefit.
    Wait, but won't the rich people still have the ability to pay for services? For instance, rich Canadians frequently seek medical treatment in the US because of rationing in Canada. What Obamacare would do is increase the level of rationing exponentially for those people who can't afford to pay. In other words, millions more Americans would experience misery because of Obamacare and the rich would be unaffected.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #222
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Wait, but won't the rich people still have the ability to pay for services? For instance, rich Canadians frequently seek medical treatment in the US because of rationing in Canada. What Obamacare would do is increase the level of rationing exponentially for those people who can't afford to pay. In other words, millions more Americans would experience misery because of Obamacare and the rich would be unaffected.
    Obamacare is not comparable to the Canadian system. It is at best a band-aid to the serious issues affecting U.S. healthcare. When a wealthy Canadian comes to the U.S. to seek medical treatment, he is not using up resources in the Canadian system. These remain for those who do not have the financial wherewithal to go outside the system.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #223
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    What is so bad about Obamacare?
    It's making Health Care more expensive for the majority of Americans.

    You can't add coverage for sicker people with less ability to pay without forcing price increases on everyone else.

    In this instance everyone else outnumbers the sicker folks with less ability to pay.

  4. #224
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It's making Health Care more expensive for the majority of Americans.

    You can't add coverage for sicker people with less ability to pay without forcing price increases on everyone else.

    In this instance everyone else outnumbers the sicker folks with less ability to pay.
    The "everyone else" is primarily people who were previously paying zero since they didn't have insurance, and were young and healthy enough not to need services. Getting them to contribute to the system is like getting everyone to chip in for public safety like police and fire departments rather than putting all the cost on those who fall victim to fire or crime.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #225
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The "everyone else" is primarily people who were previously paying zero since they didn't have insurance, and were young and healthy enough not to need services. Getting them to contribute to the system is like getting everyone to chip in for public safety like police and fire departments rather than putting all the cost on those who fall victim to fire or crime.
    That's called a public service!
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  6. #226
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    Electorally the only thing that matters is how many people benefit (and how likely are they to vote) versus how many shoulder the burden.

    If the latter category outnumbers the former...

    I've got bad news for supporters of the ACA.

  7. #227
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Those who need it can't afford it. Those who can afford it don't need it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #228
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Wait, but won't the rich people still have the ability to pay for services? For instance, rich Canadians frequently seek medical treatment in the US because of rationing in Canada. What Obamacare would do is increase the level of rationing exponentially for those people who can't afford to pay. In other words, millions more Americans would experience misery because of Obamacare and the rich would be unaffected.
    Not would - WILL.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #229
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Electorally the only thing that matters is how many people benefit (and how likely are they to vote) versus how many shoulder the burden.

    If the latter category outnumbers the former...

    I've got bad news for supporters of the ACA.
    By that standard, I'm not sure the New Deal or the Great Society would have survived.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Those who need it can't afford it. Those who can afford it don't need it.
    It's not that black and white, but if it were, that doesn't change the fact that the idea behind national health systems is to have those can afford to pay into a pull that helps fund those who can't.

    EDIT: Or, in a weaker form, pads the costs for those who cannot afford it if not so much as paying into it.
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  10. #230
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    By that standard, I'm not sure the New Deal or the Great Society would have survived.



    It's not that black and white, but if it were, that doesn't change the fact that the idea behind national health systems is to have those can afford to pay into a pull that helps fund those who can't.

    EDIT: Or, in a weaker form, pads the costs for those who cannot afford it if not so much as paying into it.
    Does "those who can afford to pay" include Congress?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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