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  1. #201
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Ask yourself how hiring 12,000 IRS agents, creating 150 new bureaucracies, and adding 20,000 pages of new regulations will improve healthcare. How would giving a boat-load of money to the government bring the cost of healthcare? Wouldn't the money be better spent if it went directly to the hospital or the doctors instead of the pockets of government bureaucrats?

    To bring down cost, first identify the main drivers of rising cost, which are:

    1. Expensive new medical devices (Does Obamacare bring down cost of new equipment? No, the medical device tax actually increases cost.)
    2. Illegal immigrants using emergency room services. (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    3. Defensive medicine practices due to frivolous lawsuits (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    4. Not enough doctors because of a monopoly held by the AMA's licensing boards (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    5. People using insurance benefits to get "free" stuff like birth control. (Does Obamacare address this? No, it exacerbates the situation.)

    And that is why Obamacare is a stupid idea.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #202
    Member Nymphie's Avatar
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    Health insurance is worth shutting the government down, you know.
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  3. #203
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Ok so now I realize Obamacare was pretty badly conceived and executed. There seems to be pretty good evidence.

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  4. #204
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Ask yourself how hiring 12,000 IRS agents, creating 150 new bureaucracies, and adding 20,000 pages of new regulations will improve healthcare. How would giving a boat-load of money to the government bring the cost of healthcare? Wouldn't the money be better spent if it went directly to the hospital or the doctors instead of the pockets of government bureaucrats?

    To bring down cost, first identify the main drivers of rising cost, which are:

    1. Expensive new medical devices (Does Obamacare bring down cost of new equipment? No, the medical device tax actually increases cost.)
    2. Illegal immigrants using emergency room services. (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    3. Defensive medicine practices due to frivolous lawsuits (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    4. Not enough doctors because of a monopoly held by the AMA's licensing boards (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    5. People using insurance benefits to get "free" stuff like birth control. (Does Obamacare address this? No, it exacerbates the situation.)

    And that is why Obamacare is a stupid idea.
    1. I think the medical device tax is about 2% which I don't think is extreme, but the American Revolution was started over less, if I remember my history correctly, so whatevs.
    2. I don't mind illegals getting care. Their employers hire and sometimes recruit them so the do not have to pay competitive wages/benefits. I don't think money is more important than the health and life of a human being.
    3. Defensive medicine is . . . well, when you consider preventable medical errors are the eighth leading cause of death in this country and most of the time people do not sue, I'm completely against tort reform. 4. How many people would be killed or injured if they were not afraid of a lawsuit?
    5. The AMA, as well as they education system does need to address the shortage of doctors.
    6. I can't think of very many things more cost effective than free birth control. If I was on bc, my copay would be $20 to $40 a month with my current insurance (through my husband's job). If money was tight, I might be tempted to skip it and I could have biologically at least popped a kid out every two years from my late teens until my early forties (that's when my mother's youngest child was born). Pregnancy, childbirth, and pediatricians are way more expensive than that.

    Obamacare is pretty crappy, but the reasons you listed aren't the biggest reasons, IMO.
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  5. #205
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    It's only because he's non-white.

    I despise racism.
    Play the race card whenever possible.
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  6. #206
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Ask yourself how hiring 12,000 IRS agents, creating 150 new bureaucracies, and adding 20,000 pages of new regulations will improve healthcare. How would giving a boat-load of money to the government bring the cost of healthcare? Wouldn't the money be better spent if it went directly to the hospital or the doctors instead of the pockets of government bureaucrats?

    To bring down cost, first identify the main drivers of rising cost, which are:

    1. Expensive new medical devices (Does Obamacare bring down cost of new equipment? No, the medical device tax actually increases cost.)
    2. Illegal immigrants using emergency room services. (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    3. Defensive medicine practices due to frivolous lawsuits (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    4. Not enough doctors because of a monopoly held by the AMA's licensing boards (Does Obamacare address this situation? No)
    5. People using insurance benefits to get "free" stuff like birth control. (Does Obamacare address this? No, it exacerbates the situation.)

    And that is why Obamacare is a stupid idea.
    So if Obamacare actually drives down costs, that makes it a good law?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #207
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

    Quote falsely attributed to Ben Stein, but written by someone

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  8. #208
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I don't understand all the complaints about the ACA in this thread.

    I just got my 2014 insurance through Healthcare.gov. The whole process was seamless. I got a far better policy than I could have through my husband's work policy. It's top-of-the-line for about the same cost as my husband's work policy.... and most importantly, it covers my pre-existing conditions.

    Seems like a pretty good law to me.

    Seems like we all need to give the new law a chance before reviling it. Of course, changes will have to be made in subsequent years to tweak it, but at least we're trying something to improve healthcare. The current system's got to change. It's riddled with problems. I don't hear the naysayers being constructive and offering good, thoughtful alternatives. I just hear a lot of kvetching which isn't very constructive at all.
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  9. #209
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345
    So if Obamacare actually drives down costs, that makes it a good law?
    No, I'm merely pointing out one of the many reasons why it's not a good law. People should know by now that Obamacare is not about providing healthcare insurance to the 41 million currently without insurance. This is just a naked power grab by authoritarian leftists who want to grow government and create more government dependency so they can stay in power.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    3. Defensive medicine is . . . well, when you consider preventable medical errors are the eighth leading cause of death in this country and most of the time people do not sue, I'm completely against tort reform. 4. How many people would be killed or injured if they were not afraid of a lawsuit?
    I'm going to use a popular lefty argument. No other industrialized nation has the amount of lawsuits that the US has. So, if European countries have a higher life expectancy without all these frivolous lawsuits, shouldn't we follow their lead?

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    2. I don't mind illegals getting care. Their employers hire and sometimes recruit them so the do not have to pay competitive wages/benefits. I don't think money is more important than the health and life of a human being.
    Do you mind that thousands of pregnant immigrants come to the US each year to have babies in American hospitals at a cost of $10,000/delivery? I do mind, since I think they are exploiting our laws and American tax payers.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    6. I can't think of very many things more cost effective than free birth control. If I was on bc, my copay would be $20 to $40 a month with my current insurance (through my husband's job). If money was tight, I might be tempted to skip it and I could have biologically at least popped a kid out every two years from my late teens until my early forties (that's when my mother's youngest child was born). Pregnancy, childbirth, and pediatricians are way more expensive than that.
    If something is free, people will want it regardless of their need for the benefit. This is why government involvement typically doubles the cost of a service and this is why hospitals can charge $14 for an aspirin. If the money is there, someone will find a way to grab that money. This also explains why services, that are not covered by insurance, are usually much cheaper. Both lasik eye surgery and cosmetic surgery (facelifts, breast implants, botox) are much cheaper because they are not subsidized. If you give individuals the authority to manage their own money, you will eliminate much of the waste that we see in big government programs like Medicare.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  10. #210
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.

    And now, any of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

    Quote falsely attributed to Ben Stein, but written by someone
    What is meant by the "not everyone must prove they are a citizen" part? Is that a reference to illegal immigrants?

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