User Tag List

First 123412 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 365

  1. #11
    likes this gromit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    6,652

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    I did a quick google on Obamacare, and my god, what a pile of conflicting (and highly biased) information. No way I could get the straight goods without many hours of digging (which, since I'm Canadian, I can't be bothered to do). My impression is the anti-Obamacare side is either employing FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) or just plain anti-socialist in general (in which case they should be anti-medicare too). Overall Obamacare seems to be a slight improvement over medicare, but I can't really tell.
    No joke... it is very confusing.

    Actually, on that note, here's a funny little clip of Jimmy Kimmel asking ppl if they prefer the Affordable Healthcare Act or Obamacare (I'm assuming they just didn't include any of the ones who recognized they were the same thing):
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/539715

    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  2. #12
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    No joke... it is very confusing.

    Actually, on that note, here's a funny little clip of Jimmy Kimmel asking ppl if they prefer the Affordable Healthcare Act or Obamacare (I'm assuming they just didn't include any of the ones who recognized they were the same thing):
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/539715

    Don't worry there are now government hotlines with people who can supposedly explain it in 150 languages.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Don't worry there are now government hotlines with people who can supposedly explain it in 150 languages.
    I'm sure they've mastered all 20,000+ pages of the regulations, too.

  4. #14
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    I don't know about you, but I don't think I should be forced to pay for insurance. I'd rather use that monthly $200 "affordable" health insurance to buy video games. I never needed to see a doctor, because I feel fine, so why should I get it?

    I'm all in favor of the shutdown if it meant eliminating Obamacare. I have enough bills to pay.

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Since it's just resulted in the US Government shutting down.

    Why is it so bad?
    Neocons will see it as competition for arms spending and libertards will see it as a move in a direction other than their return to the early days of the drafting of the constitution fantasy.

    I dont think there's anything wrong with it, its a far cry from the sort of health service for all the US could have if there were the political will.

  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CapLawyer View Post
    ObamaCare is not a win for the people. That's the problem. And I believe it aims to force many people to have to get health insurance, among other things.
    The highlighted is one of the main features of the law. It requires everyone to contribute to the common risk pool, just as we all contribute to fund other public services like fire department, police, board of health, etc. Right now, the lowest risk segment often excludes themselves (healthy young people who don't think they will need insurance); while the highest risk segment is excluded by the industry, based on factors like pre-existing conditions, or conditions that make the premiums exorbitant.

    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    I did a quick google on Obamacare, and my god, what a pile of conflicting (and highly biased) information. No way I could get the straight goods without many hours of digging (which, since I'm Canadian, I can't be bothered to do). My impression is the anti-Obamacare side is either employing FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) or just plain anti-socialist in general (in which case they should be anti-medicare too). Overall Obamacare seems to be a slight improvement over medicare, but I can't really tell.*

    I'd say pass it, then refine it to make it better (assuming it is flawed). After all, Obama won the election, and you all knew Obamacare was one of his main platforms.

    *PS> Can anybody tell me whose side the high paid corporate lobbiests for the healthcare and healthcare insurance industry are on? If they are anti, one can be certain it's bad for business and good for the people and. If they are pro, it's good for business and unclear for the people (i.e. it may make corporations more money if it costs taxpayers more, but it may result in better overall healthcare, so the extra cost may be justified).
    Canadian or no, you understand the situation here well. If I recall correctly, some of the main medical groups (e.g. AMA?) supported Obamacare, while at least some industry opposed it.

    Interestingly some years (8-10?) ago, the state of Maine wanted to negotiate lower prescription drug costs for everyone insured through the state, such as state employees, much as many of the large insurance companies do. They were prohibited from doing so by the federal government, then the adminstration of George W. Bush. This is a good example of the influence of industry, in this case pharmaceuticals.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü™ View Post
    I don't know about you, but I don't think I should be forced to pay for insurance. I'd rather use that monthly $200 "affordable" health insurance to buy video games. I never needed to see a doctor, because I feel fine, so why should I get it?
    Because you might be hit by a drunk uninsured driver; or need your appendix removed; or find out you have cancer. Do you want also to stop contributing to the police and fire departments, at least until you are robbed or have your home go up in smoke? The bills in all these cases would be unmanageable for most people. People who don't have insurance and may feel very healthy also often forego routine care, which means problems are not detected until they are more serious, and less easily treated. This is not cost effective for individuals, or for a health care system. You are free to go off and live as a hermit in the mountains if you want neither to contribute to nor depend on common institutions for the public good.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    No joke... it is very confusing.
    That it is, and needlessly so, but it is the most that could be enacted given the recent political climate. Our existing patchwork of insurance plans is complicated, too, but it has developed over decades, and most of us have grown used to the plan we have, or are walked though it by our employer. For most people, that will not change, as most Americans will continue to be insured through an employer plan, military health care, or medicare/medicaid. For the minority remaining: imagine if our existing insurance system had arisen overnight. That is essentially what is happening. The way to simplify all of it, and recover countless labor hours spent on unproductive activities like navigating the various plans, is a single payer system.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17

    Default

    Better question would be what's right with plutonomy, the US experiment in democracy is over.

  8. #18
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    I don't think it is so bad (not that it is so great)... I think it's just that ObamaCare became a powerful symbol (not entirely accidentally).

    After the financial meltdown and ensuing recession, there was a rise of populist anger, especially in the face of the bailout. This populist anger was channeled into the Tea Party on the conservative side, and eventually the Occupy moment for a subset on the liberal side.

    The target of anger for the Occupy movement was sometimes reasonably accurate, but vague. While there are ways in which the rich and the government feed off each other (crony capitalism and systems that continue to reward rent seeking), it's hard to keep focused anger on some of the other factors causing the rising equality (larger multi-national corporations, the industrial revolutions going on in the third world, increasing mechanization, etc). Also, the Occupy movement didn't propose a simple fix for the problems it highlighted, and it provided multiple vague targets, rather than any easy to understand ones (other than perhaps the 1%, who may benefit from inequality but aren't inherently the cause of most of it).

    The Tea Party, on the other hand, focuses on (from wikipedia) "limiting the size of the federal government, reducing government spending, lowering the national debt and opposing tax increases." So, the anger at the financial meltdown and bailout was easily channeled at TARF initially. However, the bailout quickly become a historical event, so a new target was needed. Plus, given the existence of some Randian libertarians in the Tea Party, the rich (including people in the financial industry) don't make a comfortable large term outlet for Tea Party anger. ObamaCare, despite modeled on earlier conservative idea and proposals (RomneyCare and the originating Heritage Foundation report), provides a convenient symbol of government spending, intrusion and overreach. It also provides a simple goal ("Repeal ObamaCare!"), and doesn't have to address actual fixes to the underlying issues.

    Given that the ACA is a complex balancing act made up of various compromises, it is relatively easy to vilify by focusing on one part or another ("death panels", individual mandate, "new job killing requirements for businesses", etc). It was also rolled out slowly, providing a vision of upcoming disaster, implementation issues to highlight, delays to capitalize on, etc. That makes for a good issue to focus on to motivate the base and to help with fundraising, as well.

    Unfortunately, it has become such a powerful symbol that some believe it is the devil, and you don't compromise with the devil... you fight pure evil every way you can and damn the consequences! Hence, in that view, the Tea Party representatives in the House aren't inflicting unnecessary pain, they are trying to prevent the end of all liberty and freedom in the United States.

  9. #19
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    I'm in favor of what it's supposed to do. But we're unprepared, and the implementation sucks.

    The problem is that the domain is very murky and pretty important, and this has only made it murkier. And instantaneously, at that. I think, combined, the ACA and its regulations stack about 7 pages tall. Fun stuff.

    Among other things -- I find it disturbing that the cutoff is that businesses under 50 employees receive a tax break to help provide insurance. 50 employees equates to a chain of, say, two grocery stores or so. What if Ol' Uncle Al's Family-Friendly Butchery and Meatery wants to expand to a third location? Seems like it's much more difficult for him to succeed. Doubtful that he'll ever be able to become the Wal-Mart of animal slaughter and distribution.

    Forgive me, father; for I'm not quite sure about the details. I'd love some clarification.

  10. #20
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü™ View Post
    I don't know about you, but I don't think I should be forced to pay for insurance. I'd rather use that monthly $200 "affordable" health insurance to buy video games. I never needed to see a doctor, because I feel fine, so why should I get it?

    I'm all in favor of the shutdown if it meant eliminating Obamacare. I have enough bills to pay.
    Theoretically, because if you suddenly have a heart attack and need hospital care for 3 years and extensive brain surgery and have no insurance to help cover those costs, taxpayers won't be forced to cover all your bills.

    It may be unlikely in your personal scenario but it happens to enough people that it's worth it to the average person to make everyone have coverage.

    In many ways it is really a fight over what is better for the all Americans versus what is better for the individual American. Personally I am willing to take a hit to help the average person, especially considering the extremely high likelihood that I will fall into the demographic of "average people" who will benefit from it.

    But others feel like they should not have to take the hit - which IMO would be fine if they agree to have no medical care provided for them if they get sick like that. Right now there's a safety net because hospitals care for people even if they can't pay.

    I think we should pull the safety net and see how everyone feels about no insurance then.

Similar Threads

  1. If the inferior function is so bad than what's made of the remaining four functions?
    By Willow Tree in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-18-2016, 07:31 PM
  2. What is so fascinating about gender politics?
    By Ingrid in grids in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-02-2016, 05:58 AM
  3. [ENTJ] ENTJ Ladies . . . what do you see is good/bad about being an ENTJ?
    By Windigo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 04-09-2012, 09:38 PM
  4. What's so bad about wanting a Union job?
    By miss fortune in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-18-2008, 11:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO