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  1. #141
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Obamacare is designed to fail. It's designed to wreck the insurance industry and force tens of millions out of their policies. This is merely a step in the strategy to push a single payer type system onto the American people. Heck, Obama stated this very goal in a meeting with SEIU members. Create a crises and then use that crises to pass unpopular legislation. "Never let a crises go to waste."

    As I indicated before, I think that we're going to have to have some system where people can buy into a larger pool. Right now their pool typically is the employer, but there are other ways of doing it. I would like to -- I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we've got a much more portable system. Employers still have the option of providing coverage, but many people may find that they get better coverage, or at least coverage that gives them more for health care dollars than they spend outside of their employer. And I think we've got to facilitate that and let individuals make that choice to transition out of employer coverage. Obama in 2007 to SEIU members
    Reference: Obama in 2007 Said He Wanted to Eliminate Private Health Insurance

    Reference: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #142
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Obamacare is designed to fail. It's designed to wreck the insurance industry and force tens of millions out of their policies. This is merely a step in the strategy to push a single payer type system onto the American people. Heck, Obama stated this very goal in a meeting with SEIU members. Create a crises and then use that crises to pass unpopular legislation. "Never let a crises go to waste."
    That's the best thing I have heard in awhile about this mess.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #143
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    From The Post:

    The Obamacare albatross for congressional Democrats

    Never before has President Obama’s signature health-care law been so politically toxic for congressional candidates, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows.

    Nearly four in 10 voters (39 percent) say they would be more likely to oppose a candidate for Congress who supports the law. Just under a quarter (23 percent) say they would be more likely to support a candidate who backs the law, according to the survey. Thirty-six percent of voters say a candidate’s position on Obamacare would not make a difference in their vote.

    The support/oppose gap is much wider than it’s ever been in Post-ABC polling, including four months before the 2010 midterm elections in which Republicans made historic gains. In that July 2010 poll, voters split, with 39 percent saying they would be more likely to support a candidate who backed health-care reform and 37 percent saying they were more likely to oppose. In July 2012, the support/oppose split was an even 28 percent among voters.

    The poll also comes as overall views of the law and the president’s handling of its rollout have cratered. Fifty-seven percent of Americans oppose the law, compared to just 40 percent who support it. And more than six in 10 Americans (63 percent) say they disapprove of the way Obama has handled the law’s implementation, nearly double the 33 percent who say they approve.

    In a clear picture of the political perils of being associated with the law amid a rollout plagued by technical glitches and unfulfilled promises, 39 House Democrats broke party ranks last week to vote for a GOP-backed bill to alter the law, representing the largest Democratic defection this year on a major piece of legislation. The defectors were mostly members expected to face tough reelection battles. Two Senate contenders running in swing states — Reps. Bruce Braley (D-Iowa) and Gary Peters (D-Mich.) — also voted for the legislation.

    Democrats on Capitol Hill also continued to push bills from Sens. Mary Landrieu (La.) and Mark Udall (Colo.) to allow Americans facing cancellations to stay on their health-insurance plans, even after Obama announced his own fix last week.

    In addition to using the law to go after Democrats, there’s another reason that Republicans are expected to harden their criticism of Obamacare: GOP primaries, where there will be little appetite for anything less than robust opposition to Obamacare.

    Seventy-one percent of Republican voters say they are more likely to oppose a candidate if that candidate supports the law, the highest level in Post-ABC polls. Intensity runs high for GOP voters, with 56 percent who would be much more likely to oppose the candidate. Just 8 percent of Republican voters say they would be more likely to support a candidate if that candidate supports the law.

    In short, unless these numbers turn around, there is little reason to believe that Democrats won’t continue to distance themselves from the law where possible and that Republicans won’t keep up their steady drumbeat of criticism.

    The good news for Democrats is that it is November of 2013. There is still about a year until the 2014 midterms. But it’s growing increasingly clear that if the political picture with regard to Obamacare looks in the fall of 2014 like it does now, it could be a very long winter for Democrats heading into 2015.

  4. #144
    amateur cartographer kquirk's Avatar
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    I can't wait for the Republican presidential candidate's campaign based on "change".
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  5. #145
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    That's the best thing I have heard in awhile about this mess.
    I'd be highly impressed if any group of politicians could play the "long game" for the benefit of the society at large vs doing whatever they think will win the next election. I think it's much more plausible Obamacare is a mess due to typical government mismanagement, much like many other government initiatives that run far over budget and fall far short of delivering on their objectives.

  6. #146
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Single-Payer Advocates: It Hurts To Say I Told You So

    The botched implementation of Obamacare has created a bittersweet moment for advocates of a universal, single-payer health care system: They saw this coming, but they can't gloat about it.

    "We may have an 'I-told-you-so' moment, but it's hard to get any pleasure out of it knowing how many people are actually going to get hurt," said Stephanie Woolhandler, a New York-based doctor who co-founded Physicians for a National Health Program, a group that pushes for universal health care. "You had a bad system, and you're putting a patch on it using the same flawed insurance companies that got us here in the first place," she said.
    To Rogers, the problems with Obamacare's websites pale in comparison to the program's greatest shortcoming: It fails to achieve universal coverage. According to the Congressional Budget Office, even though the Affordable Care Act will reduce the ranks of the uninsured by 25 million over the next decade, 30 million people will still lack health coverage.

    "It is not universal coverage. It doesn't even get close to it; it just gets closer. So that's been a disappointment to me looking at the original way that they had gone about the reform," Rogers said.
    I'm not even sure that's its greatest short-coming. The lack of solution to administrative costs or the absence of any real price controlling method might have that honor.

    The troubles of getting Obamacare off the ground could hurt or help the single-payer cause, Sanders said. "What many people are going to say is that the federal government can't even run a bloody website," he said. On the other hand, the headaches of the insurance exchanges could generate renewed interest in a more straightforward approach, he said: "We need a system that is not as complicated as this system is."
    Unfortunately, I lean toward hurt.
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  7. #147
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Oh, hey, look at that! The USA's health care costs more per capita than anyone else's by far! But, you know, that doesn't change the fact that the math shows that can't be possible. There's no way universal single payer or government health care could cost less money.



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  8. #148
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    Desperation is a stinky cologne MP.

  9. #149
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Desperation is a stinky cologne MP.
    Desperate about what?

    I am no closer to being wrong now than I was years ago, and since ACA isn't really what I promoted, nothing I promoted is really on the line.

    At any rate, I don't suppose you can manage to come up with an actual response to these statistics or the reasons I came up with for why costs would be saved a while back, that you never responded to.
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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Desperate about what?

    I am no closer to being wrong now than I was years ago, and since ACA isn't really what I promoted, nothing I promoted is really on the line.

    At any rate, I don't suppose you can manage to come up with an actual response to these statistics or the reasons I came up with for why costs would be saved a while back, that you never responded to.
    No implemented idea from the left has managed to lower health care costs in this country.

    If you're gonna throw up cost statistics, Democratic ideas should actually address cost, which they don't and which they haven't.

    And your argument for single payer still has not expanded beyond the fact that there are extant single payer systems elsewhere in the world.

    Until it does, you have nothing substantive to say.

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