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  1. #101
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do you think we should refuse to address serious problems, just because they will be very difficult to tackle? Might as well stop looking for a cure for cancer while we are at it, and stop going after drug traffickers and terrorist organizations.
    Throwing good money after bad does not constitute addressing serious problems, and problems of culture (gang violence, cultural reticence toward 'acting white' or 'snitching' to the police, etc.) are best addressed from the bottom-up through various private channels searching for solutions, which tend to be community-specific (in terms of getting there). The United States spends more per pupil than any country except Switzerland, and DC spends more than any state; past a certain point (which virtually all schools have probably already reached), extra spending just doesn't work, and involves high opportunity costs to boot. As for the drug war, 'taking a third option' (especially for 'soft drugs') is probably the best means of addressing the problem, and may even weaken criminal gangs in poor urban school districts by depriving them of revenue as well as a measure of legitimization they have through the servicing of a widespread but illegal cultural practice (smoking weed).

  2. #102
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Throwing money at a problem doesn't guarantee success, but not throwing any money at a problem pretty much guarantees failure.

    With education, you definitely have a case where qualitative adjustments need to be made, but they would all benefit from money if they were made or require money to be made.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do you think we should refuse to address serious problems, just because they will be very difficult to tackle? Might as well stop looking for a cure for cancer while we are at it, and stop going after drug traffickers and terrorist organizations.
    No, I worry that our country is increasingly leveraged within an inch of its life, and you are asking to increase that leverage on programs that there isn't even any baseline of performance for because you have no idea what they are at the moment.

    I have no problem with Scientific or Medical R&D, those are investments have a more predictable ROI than, well actually you haven't proposed anything concrete yet so I have no way of estimating the soundness of the capital outlay required.

    I prefer having the dollar as the World Reserve currency, and in order to keep it that way I take domestic policy proposals with a grain of salt, especially when they haven't even been explained in sufficient depth for me to estimate their likeliness of success.

  4. #104
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    No, I worry that our country is increasingly leveraged within an inch of its life, and you are asking to increase that leverage on programs that there isn't even any baseline of performance for because you have no idea what they are at the moment.

    I have no problem with Scientific or Medical R&D, those are investments have a more predictable ROI than, well actually you haven't proposed anything concrete yet so I have no way of estimating the soundness of the capital outlay required.

    I prefer having the dollar as the World Reserve currency, and in order to keep it that way I take domestic policy proposals with a grain of salt, especially when they haven't even been explained in sufficient depth for me to estimate their likeliness of success.
    There is no point suggesting specific measures to someone who believes nothing should be done at all. If by "leverage" you mean "funding", do not confuse quantity with quality. As lowtech redneck correctly points out, much money has been wasted, for instance, in educational programs that do not really prepare young people for work, citizenship, or adult life in general. The answer to this is better programs, not throwing in the towel. Our most valuable resource is our people. It is not enough to protect Americans from external invasion, terrorist attack, or even disease epidemic. We must also protect them from the domestic enemies of crime, ignorance, poor health, and manipulation.

    The historical record clearly shows that leaving these domestic tasks to private charity simply does not work. As one example, the military for many years had to spend much money and time giving remedial education to its recruits since their public high school education left them unprepared in basic reading and math. Is it better for this problem to be addressed by the DoD, or for the educational system to do its job and produce graduates fit for a broad spectrum of employment and service? Children who grow up in crime and gang infested areas are more likely to grow up to be criminals themselves, landing in jail at great cost to the taxpayer (where, by the way, they receive basic food, shelter, and medical care denied to the merely "lazy"). Industry loses money in absenteeism and lower productivity due to untreated or late-treated illness. People lose homes, retirement savings, and other assets through inadequate regulation of the financial industry and outright deceptive marketing practices. Addressing these domestic problems makes sense economically as well as morally, but to see the benefit, one must consider the long term rather than immediate gratification.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #105
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    I think it's a scam. Already people are complaining about the site not working. Doesn't bode well for the plan really like does it. It's made confusing then to fool everyone. If Obama really cared about the people, he'd be doing things to unite them, not signing deals with Monsanto and swanning around the world threatening to invade other countries for being in the way of his pipeline. And definitely not making confusing plans for something that could be really fucking simple. Other countries manage it. It's not rocket science. He's a snake oil salesman. He's no fucking idealist.

  6. #106
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I wish candidate Obama was president instead of this guy, too.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  7. #107
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Well, my healthcare premiums just went up by 20%. Hmmm.....

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  8. #108
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Well, my healthcare premiums just went up by 20%. Hmmm.....
    That's not unusual: http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-wo...ercurynews.com
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  9. #109
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Cancellations are exceeding enrollments: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/24/he...ollment-rates/

  10. #110
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Well, my healthcare premiums just went up by 20%. Hmmm.....
    I would be willing to see my premiums (or taxes) go up if it would make it possible for everyone to have access to medical care when they need it. We pay one way or another; that is both fairest and most efficient.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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