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  1. #81
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This isn't NI. This is a big freaking country with a lot of different people.
    Is that the whole "USA is the exception to the practicability of universal health care" argument?

    Countries with more demographic diversity than the USA (Canada) have it without a problem, and countries with comparably and sufficiently large populations (Japan) have it without a problem. Countries with economies highly attached to medical businesses (Switzerland) have it without a problem.

    I just don't know what special property the USA could have that would make it incapable of using such a health care system.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Lol. At least you didn't call me a jingoist this time.

    I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that you're majoritarianism favors the majority of the larger whole without regard for regional majorities.
    Jingoism? Well its a sort of nationalism, you dont expect me to comment now do you? Its not NI after all as you said.

  3. #83
    morose bourgeoisie
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    The bottom line is the tea party feels justified in holding the country hostage because they are terrified that this law will become popular and stick just like social security and medicare, and the adults in the party are letting it happen because they know they can throw the junior members under the bus later if necessary.
    All this bullshit about 'gentlemens' agreements' is just right wing propaganda and sour grapes. period.
    There is no such thing in effect and never was in politics. Also, many in this thread seem not to understand how representative democracy works.
    Just get over it. You can’t convince me or anyone else with just one more post that regurgitates right wing talking points and hysteria.
    Will the law work? We’ll know in a year or so, after it’s had time, but to preemptively state that it’s a failure the way the GOP has is just nonsense.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Is that the whole "USA is the exception to the practicability of universal health care" argument?

    Countries with more demographic diversity than the USA (Canada) have it without a problem, and countries with comparably and sufficiently large populations (Japan) have it without a problem. Countries with economies highly attached to medical businesses (Switzerland) have it without a problem.

    I just don't know what special property the USA could have that would make it incapable of using such a health care system.
    Tea party.

    You got the Tea Party. Like a cancer.

  5. #85
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Is that the whole "USA is the exception to the practicability of universal health care" argument?

    Countries with more demographic diversity than the USA (Canada) have it without a problem, and countries with comparably and sufficiently large populations (Japan) have it without a problem. Countries with economies highly attached to medical businesses (Switzerland) have it without a problem.

    I just don't know what special property the USA could have that would make it incapable of using such a health care system.
    Were you not paying attention to the conversation?

    It wasn't about practicality. It was about self-determination.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #86
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    Also, many in this thread seem not to understand how representative democracy works.
    That's how it's looking to me.

    I'm not sure if anyone has brought up the supreme court yet. If you recall, the supreme court ruled that ACA was constitutional. They did rule that it worked on grounds different from the one put forward, but that it would still be constitutional.

    So let's get this straight.

    With the necessary votes in the house and senate and the signature of the president, ACA was signed into law in 2010.

    Shortly later that year, elections came around, which gave the majority of the House to the Republicans but not the Senate, and even in the House there would not be enough votes to repeal ACA.

    The supreme court rules that ACA is constitutional in mid 2012.

    Second election happen shortly there after that year, and re-elects the man that signed ACA into law and had the bill named colloquially after him to the presidency. The Senate and the House both lose Republicans and with them votes to repeal ACA.

    In that span of time, Republicans have made 42 inevitably failed attempts to repeal ACA.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valis View Post
    Not a very good prediction was it?
    Hope it won't be long :o
    Dirt Farmer

  8. #88
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    While the rest of the country has suffered the number of USA top 6 richest counties in the DC metropolitan area has increased from 2 to 4 over the last decade. Even though not all federal workers are making 6 figures plus it's still pretty hard for me to give a shit when the private sector has been in the tank for over five years.
    What percentage of people in these 4 additional counties are composed of government employees?

    Also, do you consider defaulting on government debts a viable option to try and defund Obamacare?

    This is exactly why I'm more inclined to support the Republicans digging in their heels rather than just waiting for it to fail. Once enough people are on the take it doesn't matter how harmful, inefficient, or unsustainable the program is. It's not going away. Just look at ss and medicare. Which means the only solution is to create more entitlements. Which iswhy this is just a oneway path to a federal single payer system.
    Well, it's nice that you believe that this bill will actually help a lot of people who its designed to help, despite the flaws. Around here, most people I talk to simply believe the bill is so terrible that when 90% of the people can't afford it, they'll revolt and give full control back to the Republicans.

    I haven't heard this argument before. Can you please cite the amendments the republicans made that make the law worst and destined to fail?
    This was poorly worded on my part, and I let my animosity towards the Tea Party get the better of me.

    I forgot how lousy the bill was out of the gate initially because it was designed to appeal to lobbyists. (Which is a shame, since in the end they still ended up spending insane amounts of money to try and kill it.)

    My issue is that Republicans then made a strategic decision to not work with the Democrats, because they saw an opportunity to take back Congress and the Presidency by letting it bomb, and valued that higher than creating something that addressed an issue that desperately needed to be addressed. They refused to negotiate, and it's funny how things are coming back full circle now, really.

    This is what forced Democrats to awkwardly shoe-horn the bill via single party. Suddenly, every single Democratic vote counted, and some took advantage to make a compromised bill even worse. This is where the bill lost the public option (that REALLY hurt the bill - thanks a lot Lieberman!) and gained the infamous $100,000,000 gift to Nebraska to get that final vote. I'd like to think that if Republicans would have come to the table, instead of spending a hundred million to get one vote we could have tempered some of parts that cause businesses pain to gain a handful of Republican votes, and a more well rounded bill.

    And to be clear, I'm not giving Democrats a pass, here. Republican inaction definitely allowed Democrat dysfunction to come to the surface, similar to how Democrat inaction now is leading to Republican dysfunction to be exposed.

  9. #89
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Even you can't come up with a length of time longer than decades? That hardly sounds unprecedented then.
    "Decades" was what I could immediately recall (I didn't remember whether the FDR administration had done so), how about 'more than 100 years', otherwise known as the entire modern history of the United States?:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/most-c...161900230.html

  10. #90
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    The bottom line is the tea party feels justified in holding the country hostage because they are terrified that this law will become popular and stick just like social security and medicare
    The concern is that the country would not be able to practically extricate itself from it even as it continues or even grows in unpopularity and involves 'unforeseen' escalating costs.

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