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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    If they wanted it to be a done deal they shouldn't have passed, without bipartisan support, a huge bill that requires the ongoing support of all branches of government to function, and if Obama and the Democrats cared more about the economy than they did the imposition of a program a sizable majority of Americans still oppose, they would not categorically refuse to put the matter up for negotiation. Apparently, both sides care more about Obamacare, one way or another, than they do the economy.
    ACA originated from joint bipartisan meetings of Democrat and Republican leaders. The individual mandate, despite being supported by some Republicans in the past, was decided by McConnell and some others as the main "gripe" in order to derail the bill, so even past supporters of such mandate in the Republican ranks joined lockstep. With the House fighting over things, the Senate ended up creating their version of the bill with a lot of concessions to various Democratic and Republican factions in order to acquire the 60 necessary votes. Now there were essentially two versions of the bill, and since the Democrats had lost a seat in the Senate, the decision was made for the House to consider the bill that had passed the Senate. Again, more concessions (including to pro-life Democrats) before the bill actually passed, and Obama taking flack from both ends of the spectrum (pro-life and pro-choice, among other constituencies).

    I mean, isn't that business as usual for Congress?

    I suppose in the past we didn't have the Tea Party extremists who don't view compromise as a valid part of the law-creation process.

    Anyway, moving on, it looks like the House had a choice of whether to drag this into the argument about the debt ceiling or the national budget and decided to attach it to the budget instead. (My impression is that Boehner would have rather attached it to the debt ceiling debate.)

    And that exhausts my knowledge of this issue. I'll finish my last few assignments here and then go home and wait and see what happens.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The Republicans are demanding the de facto repeal of a law that was passed a few years ago that they do not have the necessary votes in the whole of the legislator to actually repeal.

    Is there precedent for threatening to shutdown the government unless an older law is repealed?

    Anyhow, this is only one of multiple times that the Republicans have essentially threatened to pummel the economy unless they have their way.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    are they allowed. seems prime time foranarchy I dont know I dont like politics or their silly little games and rules

  4. #14
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    It's a little hard for Republicans, I think, to claim they aren't at fault for the government shutdown when everything else they are saying is against the government. But that's just me.
    "In Heaven, everything is fine." - The Lady in the Radiator

  5. #15
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post

    Is there precedent for threatening to shutdown the government unless an older law is repealed?
    Nobody's trying to repeal a law here.

    Anyhow, this is only one of multiple times that the Republicans have essentially threatened to pummel the economy unless they have their way.
    Democrats did shut down the government on H.W. Bush and Reagan multiple times.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  6. #16
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Nobody's trying to repeal a law here.
    De facto. Saying that you won't repeal a law while attempting to defund it and proposing delaying its implementation (presumably so you can delay it again next year if completely repealing it isn't possible) is for the same purpose and has much the same effect as repeal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Democrats did shut down the government on H.W. Bush and Reagan multiple times.
    Yes, and the Republicans have under Clinton. Of course it has been shut down before. I was questioning the reason.
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  7. #17
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I don't think it would be such an issue if the economy weren't in a rough place right now, with many Americans depending on their paychecks, which is the fault of many different factors, ranging from poor government control to just bad luck.

    Personally I'm for Obamacare, but I don't blame the people against it for trying to change it as much as they possibly can. It's sort of shitty to do it at this point given awareness of the economic conditions and what the fallout on individual families will be, though.

  8. #18
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    De facto. Saying that you won't repeal a law while attempting to defund it and proposing delaying its implementation (presumably so you can delay it again next year if completely repealing it isn't possible) is for the same purpose and has much the same effect as repeal.
    That it's de facto whatever is irrelevant. The house is taking direct action on the substance of the bill before it which would require the funding of Obamacare. They're not dragging irrelevant issues into the bill as you seem to indicate.


    Yes, and the Republicans have under Clinton. Of course it has been shut down before. I was questioning the reason.
    The reason across the decades is because you can compromise on how much to grow the government or how much to decrease the government, but it's near impossible to compromise between whether you grow or decrease the government. One side will necessarily lose.

    Thus, any claim that one or the other side is unwilling to compromise is disengenuos. The truth is that, both are willing to compromise, but neither is willing to lose.
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  9. #19
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    ... Apparently, both sides care more about Obamacare, one way or another, than they do the economy.
    Pretty much sums up why it is pointless voting for both parties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  10. #20
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    I don't know. It all seems like "The Game of Thrones" to me. It really doesn't matter how the small folk fare.
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    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

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