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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I treat people with respect regardless of their background...
    As do I.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    ...and get it in return.
    And when I interact with folks, they tend to realize this, and end up liking me.

    But that doesn't mean their initial impression wasn't what it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    Perhaps you are sheltered or don't realize how your behavior affects how you are treated.
    And perhaps people are superficial assholes who make shallow judgments based essentially on nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I've definitely been treated differently because I'm white but it'd be ridiculous to call it racism or say its had a negative effect on any important part of my life.
    Well, first off, you're a female.

    Believe it or not, males of minority races tend to look at and treat you differently than white males.

    Second, that's fine that you feel that way, but I'd definitely call plenty of what I've experienced racism. And rightly so.

    And, lastly, as to whether it has had a negative impact on any important part of my life: I'm not saying I haven't gotten a job because of it, which is fair; what I am saying is that it affects my life on a consistent, daily basis, which, I'd say, is, well, pretty important.

  2. #82
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well, first off, you're a female.

    Believe it or not, males of minority races tend to look at and treat you differently than white males.
    Believe it or not, I interact with women of color as well and still stand by what I said.

    Sorry, but I find affluent white male persecution complexes hilarious. If that makes me ignorant, so be it.

    I believe too much time spent in Berkeley warps people's perceptions of "real America."

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    Believe it or not, I interact with women of color as well and still stand by what I said.
    That's fine.

    Ignorant people stand by what they say all the time.

    Believe it or not: women of color also treat white males and females differently than do men of color.

    In fact, if there's a group who gives me the least problems of all, it's probably black women.

    Imagine that.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    Sorry, but I find affluent white male persecution complexes hilarious. If that makes me ignorant, so be it.
    It does.

    It basically makes you no better than someone who says "there's no such thing as racism, minorities are making it all up".

    If you can't understand the simple concept that white people get treated a certain way because they're white, then that's your problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I believe too much time spent in Berkeley warps people's perceptions of "real America."
    If you add an "and around" after the "in", then this could possibly explain your problem.

    I've been gone from Berkeley for a long time.

  4. #84
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    @Zarathustra

    I've lived in Berkeley for a year, I'm referring more to my boyfriend who's lived here for 20+ years and his friends who are all Berkeley natives. I've spent most of my life in much more conservative areas. Where I've encountered way too much actual racism that people feel comfortable discussing with me because they assume because I'm white too I'm a kindred spirit.

    Also I was never debating the fact that white people get treated differently. I'm saying it's very rarely anything that causes a serious negative impact on one's life. I've been called "white bitch," had various stereotypes used against me, etc. But I'm a realistic person and know that all of that pales in comparison to being targeted by the police, followed in stores, turned down for jobs, etc.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    @Zarathustra

    I've lived in Berkeley for a year, I'm referring more to my boyfriend who's lived here for 20+ years and his friends who are all Berkeley natives. I've spent most of my life in much more conservative areas. Where I've encountered way too much actual racism that people feel comfortable discussing with me because they assume because I'm white too I'm a kindred spirit.

    Also I was never debating the fact that white people get treated differently. I'm saying it's very rarely anything that causes a serious negative impact on one's life. I've been called "white bitch," had various stereotypes used against me, etc. But I'm a realistic person and know that all of that pales in comparison to being targeted by the police, followed in stores, turned down for jobs, etc.
    That's great and all, and I agree with a good part of it, but see the bolded part.

    I'm assuming that racism you experienced, had shared with you, by white folks, in more racist parts of the country, wasn't police-targeting, or following in stores, or turning someone down for jobs: it was, plainly and simply, judging someone for the color of their skin, holding prejudicial views against certain people for their race.

    But, for some reason, you deem that "actual racism", but say it's not actual racism when the same happens to white people.

    I'm sorry to inform you of this, but, if that's the case, as it clearly seems to be, based on what you wrote, then you're the one with the twisted and inaccurate understanding of racism.

  6. #86
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Don't forget individual initiative and valuing the right things (i.e., education, hard work, staying out of trouble, etc).

    Those are far too important to simply put under "family situation" or "other related factors".

    If one wants an education in this country, one can get one.

    Andrew Carnegie was a poor immigrant of a hated minority group.

    He chose to spend his youth in public libraries, reading and studying.

    I have too many parents of friends who came here from another country, with nothing in their pockets, who worked their asses off, and valued the right things, and, because of this, despite having no roots in this country, no connections, no money, and possibly not even speaking the language, managed to build a phenomenal life for their next generation.

    If you choose to make bad decisions, that is your choice.

    If you choose to make good decisions, you can make it in this country.
    The exceptions do not prove the rule here. Too many people must expend far too much effort to get basic, straightforward things that those in more privileged groups get with minimal effort, and sometimes take for granted. But that is not even what I am talking about here. The discussion concerns prejudice and discrimination. People often assume someone is less intelligent, less trustworthy, less qualified, or otherwise inferior because they come from a poor area, were raised by a single mother, attended a rough high school or have a GED, or simply don't have the money or background to present themselves with the same style and polish as their more advantaged peers. A hiring supervisor or admissions officer might have their doubts about even a white male if his address marks him as "trailer trash", his suit looks like it came from Goodwill (and probably did), and his resume lists a GED and the local community college. Never mind how inauspicious his beginnings, how hard he worked to pull himself out of it, and how much he can actually do. The injunction not to judge a book by its cover comes to mind. Prejudice is forming judgments about people based on inadequate and usually superficial information. This in turn often leads to taking action concerning those people on the basis of irrelevant criteria; the manifestation of prejudice we often label "discrimination".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Believe it or not: women of color also treat white males and females differently than do men of color.

    In fact, if there's a group who gives me the least problems of all, it's probably black women.
    That's a really RACIST / SEXIST / EGOTISTICAL thing to say.

    Colour me unsurprised.

    If you can't understand the simple concept that white people get treated a certain way because they're white, then that's your problem.
    It's you who can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Check the thread title.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That's a really RACIST / SEXIST / EGOTISTICAL thing to say.

    Colour me unsurprised.
    Actually, it's not.

    Not even close, really.

    But seeing as how you thought the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black" was racist, color me unsurprised.

    Reading into something what's not actually there is your specialty.

    It's you who can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Check the thread title.


    You're such a wit.

    What's next: "I'm rubber, you're glue"?

  9. #89
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The exceptions do not prove the rule here. Too many people must expend far too much effort to get basic, straightforward things that those in more privileged groups get with minimal effort, and sometimes take for granted. But that is not even what I am talking about here. The discussion concerns prejudice and discrimination. People often assume someone is less intelligent, less trustworthy, less qualified, or otherwise inferior because they come from a poor area, were raised by a single mother, attended a rough high school or have a GED, or simply don't have the money or background to present themselves with the same style and polish as their more advantaged peers. A hiring supervisor or admissions officer might have their doubts about even a white male if his address marks him as "trailer trash", his suit looks like it came from Goodwill (and probably did), and his resume lists a GED and the local community college. Never mind how inauspicious his beginnings, how hard he worked to pull himself out of it, and how much he can actually do. The injunction not to judge a book by its cover comes to mind. Prejudice is forming judgments about people based on inadequate and usually superficial information. This in turn often leads to taking action concerning those people on the basis of irrelevant criteria; the manifestation of prejudice we often label "discrimination".
    Prejudiced discrimination or prejudiced "choice" is unfair because it is often unreasonable and not evidence based.

    Social class is a big subject for unfair discrimination and prejudice, that does cut across race, sex, creed etc. but those things can act like multipler effects, ie you will be discriminated against on the basis of class but you will be further discriminated again on the combination of class, creed, sex. I'm not sure that any particular trait would be sufficient to have a balancing out effect or not, I've seen it in movies or other media that it is often assumed it does, at least by racists themselves or other sorts of prejudiced individuals.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Actually, it's not.
    Actually, it is. But since you are alarmingly ignorant of this fact, I'll spell it out for you.

    Defining "black women" as "the group who [sic] gives me the least problems" is unbelievably EGOCENTRIC.

    Stating that any "group" behaves in a uniform way because of the colour of their skin is RACIST.

    Stating that any "group" behaves in a uniform way because of their gender is SEXIST.

    Hope this helps.
    ....

    Zarathustra provides us with an excellent example of "the distress of the privileged" or puny white middle-class male whining "WHERE'S MY DINNER"?



    But even as we accept the reality of George’s privileged-white-male distress, we need to hold on to the understanding that the less privileged citizens of Pleasantville are distressed in an entirely different way. (Margaret Atwood is supposed to have summed up the gender power-differential like this: “Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.”)

    ..
    It's a good article. Read it.

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