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  1. #71
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think the key to most sorts of discrimination, or that which makes the other sorts less significant, is fiscal, its about the haves and have nots, rallying the poorest *whatever* to join with the richests *whatever* because thank Christ they are not a *what other*

    Anti-discriminatory theory is a liberal legacy, discrimination per se is fine, its considered synomynous with choice but there is fair and unfair criteria, the fair criteria being liberal meritocracy and the whole question of fiscal policy or the distribution of wealth is set to one side.

    I think that's wrong and will render most anti-discriminatory practices aiming at impartiality etc. null and void.

  2. #72
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I experience a lot of things.

    What I can tell you is that I definitely experience all kinds of discrimination on a daily basis, based on all kinds of superficial things: the color of my skin, the fact that I'm a male, my age, my physique, the way I wear my hair, whether I'm in a suit or not, etc.

    They're all superficial judgments, they're all unfair, they do not actually get anywhere near to the core of who I am, they affect how people treat me, and everyone experiences this kind of shit, for all different kinds of reasons.

    What we need to do, all of us, is stop being such shitty human beings, constantly judging people on superficial bases. We need to let go of all these judgments we all too often make, remind ourselves that they have very little basis in reality, and start trying to see people for who they really are.
    You're right. No matter who you are,you are going to be judged for what you do, say, and the way you present yourself.

    The irony of "privilege" is that it's a conceptual device to help validate/acknowledge the experience of and the real and perceived "oppression" of disenfranchised/minority groups but in so doing, it can produce the opposite effect by creating and enhancing an "us vs. them" mentality. Although much of it is legitimate, it can sometime seem like whining and bit out of touch from reality (mainly applicable to some subsets of academic theory).

    The funny part is that some of the worst discrimination I have experienced is by people who try really hard to be accepting of "diversity" (inadvertently, making a huge deal of our differences instead of focusing on commonalities) and other people of minority status (with the inaccurate assumption that we might have commonalities just because we aren't part of the "majority group"). I have been guilty of such (and still am) because of my own discomfort (and I am guessing that's why others fixate on that stuff).

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    You're right. No matter who you are,you are going to be judged for what you do, say, and the way you present yourself.
    And a lot more than just that.

    I don't think being male, or female, or white, or black, or asian, or latino, has anything to do with how you present yourself.

    I do agree, tho, that how you present yourself does affect how others perceive you.

    The odd thing is, tho, "how you present yourself" is not really an objective thing.

    People's reactions to how you present yourself can be completely unrelated to how you're trying to present yourself.

    I know, for me, people, I dunno, people seem to have strong reactions towards me.

    And, often times, they are not reactions I am at all trying to create.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    The irony of "privilege" is that it's a conceptual device to help validate/acknowledge the experience of and the real and perceived "oppression" of disenfranchised/minority groups but in so doing, it can produce the opposite effect by creating and enhancing an "us vs. them" mentality. Although much of it is legitimate, it can sometime seem like whining and bit out of touch from reality (mainly applicable to some subsets of academic theory).
    Oh, I think plenty of it is legitimate.

    I just think there's legitimate discrimination going on in all sorts of directions, against all sorts of people, for all sorts of reasons, and that we do ourselves a disservice to make certain kinds of discrimination perfectly acceptable, and others not.

    I can assure you, I attempt my very best to give each person the chance to fully express themselves, and to be fully open to who they truly are, leaving all superficial judgments aside. Inevitably, at a certain point, a judgment might have to be made, and, if it does, I will base it on all the information I have available, and with an attempt to be as open-minded and clear-eyed as possible.

    That being said, the rest of what you said is true as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    The funny part is that some of the worst discrimination I have experienced is by people who try really hard to be accepting of "diversity" (inadvertently, making a huge deal of our differences instead of focusing on commonalities)...
    I went to Berkeley.

    I was surrounded by them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    ...and other people of minority status (with the inaccurate assumption that we might have commonalities just because we aren't part of the "majority group").
    Are you talking about other asians who try to identfiy with you? And/or other non-asian minorities who try to identify with you?

    And is the the majority group they try to group with you against "the white population"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I have been guilty of such (and still am) because of my own discomfort (and I am guessing that's why others fixate on that stuff).
    What are you guilty of exactly?

    And what are you uncomfortable with?

  4. #74
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    We need to combine this

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    You're right. No matter who you are,you are going to be judged for what you do, say, and the way you present yourself.
    with this

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    discrimination per se is fine, its considered synomynous with choice but there is fair and unfair criteria, the fair criteria being liberal meritocracy and the whole question of fiscal policy or the distribution of wealth is set to one side.
    To separate valid and invalid criteria for making these choices, and to understand that the appropriateness can be context-dependent. Uneven distribution of wealth, and especially income (access to well-paying jobs) results to large degree from unequal access to the opportunity to get good jobs, which in turn is based on educational opportunity, which relates to location, safety, health, family situation, social status, and a host of other related factors.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #75
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes.

    Every single day.

    And I am a white male.
    I find this hard to believe, tbh.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I find this hard to believe, tbh.
    Well, perhaps you are part of the problem.

    Perhaps you are ignorant, and don't realize how you are.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    I find this hard to believe, tbh.
    I dont find it hard to believe, and the reponse to this post itself illustrates the point, although whether there's a highly subjective judgement being made, linked probably to personality structure itself, rather than the actual experience of discrimination is a good question.

    There's loads of people who experience persecution complexes, many of them are part of the power elite of their respective societies, the regular meltdowns of the protestant majority in NI is one example, they just seek and find more and more evidence of their decline and persecution everyday regardless of what is objectively the case.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well, perhaps you are part of the problem.

    Perhaps you are ignorant, and don't realize how you are.
    Its as dichotomous as that yeah?

  9. #79
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well, perhaps you are part of the problem.

    Perhaps you are ignorant, and don't realize how you are.
    Perhaps you are sheltered or don't realize how your behavior affects how you are treated.

    I've definitely been treated differently because I'm white but it'd be ridiculous to call it racism or say its had a negative effect on any important part of my life.

    I treat people with respect regardless of their background and get it in return.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    We need to combine this

    with this

    To separate valid and invalid criteria for making these choices, and to understand that the appropriateness can be context-dependent. Uneven distribution of wealth, and especially income (access to well-paying jobs) results to large degree from unequal access to the opportunity to get good jobs, which in turn is based on educational opportunity, which relates to location, safety, health, family situation, social status, and a host of other related factors.
    Don't forget individual initiative and valuing the right things (i.e., education, hard work, staying out of trouble, etc).

    Those are far too important to simply put under "family situation" or "other related factors".

    If one wants an education in this country, one can get one.

    Andrew Carnegie was a poor immigrant of a hated minority group.

    He chose to spend his youth in public libraries, reading and studying.

    I have too many parents of friends who came here from another country, with nothing in their pockets, who worked their asses off, and valued the right things, and, because of this, despite having no roots in this country, no connections, no money, and possibly not even speaking the language, managed to build a phenomenal life for their next generation.

    If you choose to make bad decisions, that is your choice.

    If you choose to make good decisions, you can make it in this country.

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