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  1. #61
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I don't really think that, if I do have privilegee, there's anything that can be done about it. I mean, I acknowledge that I have privilege. Fine. Now what?

    Maybe if I do vaginas on anthills, maybe that will undo my privilege. Umm, no it won't.

    Create all the art you want, it wan't undo any of it. The problem is psychological and due to individuals having different experiences. Art or "awareness" spreadng doesn't change that, because people still experience the world as a white man/woman. It doesn't make them not white. Maybe if someone was able to neurally jack into someone's brain, maybe that would do something. The problem is that you can only control you. You cannot control society. At least, I can't. Maybe someone with more extroverted judging can. But me? No. I'm not big on action and am a selfish douche that way. I admit it.

    The concept of privilege is simple. As a white man, I experience the world differently from people who are non-white. I get it. And yes, the fact that I only have to "get it" and don't have to think about if I don't want to is a privilege. But, I get that too. So?

    Even if I use that buzzword a lot like I"m supposed to, it won't change the fact that I'm a white man and continue to experience the world as a white man.

    Maybe if I talk about this stuff and care about it enough, people will love me!!! Um, no, and that's not a good reason to do something, anyway. This stuff is best left to the Feelers, IMO. I don't think that it isn't important, but I'm too irritable around and about people to be in the business of changing minds, at least about hot button sociopolitical issues. Trust me on that one.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #62
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    He probably is, in a sense, but it is being drowned out by everything else. To say that he is in general privileged over the rich, white, heterosexual woman would be false, I think. But understanding this does not in any way require one to do away with the concept of privilege, it simply involves understanding that there are multiple forms of privilege which are cumulative.
    I think gender for a black male is more of a hindrance than a privilege even though they generally don't have to face issues particular to black females. Black males have historically faced issues at a disproportionately higher level than black females like unemployment, racial/gender profiling, police brutality, lynching, high homicide rates, incarceration, homelessness, military draft, ect and these issues are tied in with their particular brand of masculinity. This has allowed society to dehumanize black males as brutes, rapists, criminals, and psychopaths, especially during the late 19th century when Jim Crow laws were enforced and lynchings and public violence was seen by a lot of whites as a justifiable, necessary evil against black males.

    That requires some sociology. In 1850s Mexico, they are treated as white and get white privilege. In 1850 USA, they are treated as black and get black oppression. The current USA has complex views on race which ultimate result in, I think, mixed children being worse off than "pure" whites, but having more of a chance of "passing" than "pure" blacks, and also receive a host of problems unique to them to do current identity politics.
    Freed mulatto blacks also owned blacks slaves in numbers disproportionate to their population numbers compared to whites, mulatto/light skinned blacks have historically done better educationally and economically compared to dark skinned blacks. Them being worse off than "pure" whites was due to the one drop rule that sought to preserve white purity, they were considered black socially.

    Now, if we were to ask if a black man or a white woman was more privileged (with all other details undisclosed) I'd say it's quite dependent on which circumstance the two people are in because the discrimination against the two groups are expressed sometimes in different ways. I think for our purposes it is most constructive to just call them equal, otherwise you get inane crap like the things people said during the Clinton-Obama Democratic primaries in 2008.
    Historically white females have been privileged over black males and other men of color, no contest really, even though black males in principle got the right to vote in 1870 they almost immediately faced numerous barriers(like literacy tests, pole taxes, lynching, KKK, ect) that prevented their opportunities to vote until the voting rights act of 1965 was pasted that allowed black males and females the right to vote without legal discrimination. That's almost one hundred years after the 15th amendment was ratified and 45 years after (white)women got the right to vote!

    The answer to these problems is not always finding the framing that makes everyone seem to be in the same boat. Look at some things Martin Luther King said, and you find him talking about how he discussed removing oppression from blacks as a benefit to all freedom loving people. He did include everyone by arguing it was in everyone's interest, but it required him to acknowledge that there was a serious privilege gap to be fixed.

    If you can't point out that a man has a privilege, then you can't point out that a woman is deprived of something the man gets, which means you can not even acknowledge the problem to address it in the first place. I don't see a way to acknowledge the plight of minorities without being able to assign the title of privilege to certain demographics.

    Being discriminated against for any reason is terrible, but you are not likely to be discriminated against equally for any reason. Here are four facts about me; I am an atheist, my favorite color is black, I grew up in a poor family and still only have modest means, and I have a convexed rib cage. Of those four qualities, do you think all four are equally likely to bring me discrimination or bring equal severity of discrimination? Of course not. The entire issue about, say, black vs white, is that while being discriminated for either reason is terrible, a black person will presumably face far more discrimination than a white in this society. That is the privilege.
    There are genuine structural inequities but it is different for each specific issue, I don't think belonging to multiple oppressed groups means it automatically creates additional additive effects, sometimes it can even create subtractive effects, as is the case for black females. Here's a link to a study(conduted by a black female) that challenges the double jeopardy concept.http://paloalto.patch.com/groups/sch...ack-and-female

    Black women are not seen as threatening as black men, according to Katherine W. Phillips in her talk at the Stanford Humanities Center Thursday. Phillips is an associate professor of at Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management and a visiting scholar at Stanford.

    Her talk, “Black Women and the Backlash Effect? Understanding the Intersection of Race and Gender,” was the last in the Clayman Institute’s series for the 2010-11 academic year, “Beyond the Stalled Revolution: Reinvigorating Gender Equality in the Twenty-First Century.”

    At Kellogg, Phillips and her colleagues conducted studies to examine whether black women are subject to double jeopardy as targets of both and racial and gender discrimination. One theory suggested that these biases had an additive, or maybe even a multiplicative, effect. Other models expanded the notion to include class and sexual orientation.

    In “Untangling the Effects of Race and Sex: The Disadvantaged Status of Black Women” (1975), Elizabeth Almquist wrote “Racism and sexism pervade American culture, creating an usually disadvantaged status for black women.”

    The studies at Kellogg involved questions regarding how desirable it is for a person to possess characteristics of communality (compassion, warmth, helpfulness, cooperation and friendliness) and of dominance (controlling, forceful, aggressive, intimidating and dominating). Another series of questions dealt with stereotypes, as the respondents were asked how common or typical is it for a (black/white) (man/woman) to behave with such characteristics.

    Phillips found that prescriptions and descriptions of communality were nearly equal for both genders and races. But for dominance, white men were most highly prescribed, followed by black women, black men and white women. However, black women were rated highest in description of dominance, followed by white men, black men and white women.

    Another study performed by Phillips examined likeability and hireability. Black women turned out to be the most hireable and white women least hireable. Phillips concluded that “black women have more latitude to display dominance than both white women and black men.” She also asserted that sees no evidence for the double jeopardy hypothesis in her study.

    Phillips suggested that black women may not be seen as prototypical women or prototypical blacks. She presented some interesting statistics that support her observation.

    Nearly two-thirds of all African-American undergraduates are women.
    Nearly 40 percent of African-American women ages 25-54 have never been married.
    Between 2002-08, the number of firms owned by African-American women grew by 19 percent—twice as fast as all other firms.
    Phillips said men are attracted to feminine women, and black women are not seen as feminine as Asian and white women. The upside is that black women are more acceptable in the workplace. She concluded that racism and sexism coming together is more complex than we’ve thought and worthy of further study
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  3. #63
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    In other news, the market is still cornered on victimology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    then that makes two, because i subscribe to her/his post completely.
    It does make two.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    i thought this was appropriate...




    That might be the single dumbest comic I have ever seen

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Have you ever felt on your skin what it is like to feel discrimination?
    Yes.

    Every single day.

    And I am a white male.

  7. #67
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes.

    Every single day.

    And I am a white male.
    Isn't there such a thing called "reverse racism"? I have noticed that when white guys succeed, it's mostly just expected of them and gets dismissed as part of privilege. Is that what you experience?

    I am saying this as an adopted handicapped Asian female (who grew up with a fairly well off white family).

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    Privilege.

    It's all about race and sex.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Isn't there such a thing called "reverse racism"? I have noticed that when white guys succeed, it's mostly just expected of them and gets dismissed as part of privilege. Is that what you experience?

    I am saying this as an adopted handicapped Asian female (who grew up with a fairly well off white family).
    I experience a lot of things.

    What I can tell you is that I definitely experience all kinds of discrimination on a daily basis, based on all kinds of superficial things: the color of my skin, the fact that I'm a male, my age, my physique, the way I wear my hair, whether I'm in a suit or not, etc.

    They're all superficial judgments, they're all unfair, they do not actually get anywhere near to the core of who I am, they affect how people treat me, and everyone experiences this kind of shit, for all different kinds of reasons.

    What we need to do, all of us, is stop being such shitty human beings, constantly judging people on superficial bases. We need to let go of all these judgments we all too often make, remind ourselves that they have very little basis in reality, and start trying to see people for who they really are.

  10. #70
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What we need to do, all of us, is stop being such shitty human beings, constantly judging people on superficial bases. We need to let go of all these judgments we all too often make, remind ourselves that they have very little basis in reality, and start trying to see people for who they really are.
    You have identified the crux of the matter here. All the campaigns against discrimination by race, gender, age, handicap, social status, etc. are just addressing some subset of this larger problem.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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