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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2009


    With regards to others, I will give as sympathetic an ear as I receive.

    Treat me like an animal, and I'll act like one.

    If I feel that where I come from, and how I was raised will preclude another from giving fair consideration to the points I make, then they will receive that in return.

    If you want to have a class war... fine. If you want to shake hands... fine.

  2. #52


    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    When your empire falls, does it hurt?

    I felt it to be less of an exposition of the conservative viewpoint, than that of one of insane privilege.
    Typed so quickly it doesnt make sense, the mark of the emoting T-Rex.

  3. #53


    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    While this article may be anti-collectivist it's also extremely anti-conservative as true conservatives put a premium on duty and permanent things. The idea that everybody wins in every commercial transaction is a concept that denies the moral reality of good and bad and offers a relativist view where the only value that exists is percieved value. It's pretty disgusting and ridiculous on the whole. It's also pretty galling that they have the audacity to hold up apple as an example. Yes, those Foxconn workers are getting the value they desire. Foxconn even throws in free suicide nets!
    Would that I was able to read perspectives like that more often, I find it extremely galling the extremes to which the libertarians have been able to move public opinion, their cultural revolution has become one of the internal contradictions of capitalism in the US for sure and perhaps of any economic paradigm which could be tried at all because its impossible that any would work when the myriad norms and values which are prerequisites have been undermined altogether.

    I wish they'd all up and resettle in India, were sound business principles lead to Fagan like characters blinding street children because they can make more money begging that way, you know since whatever makes money is a straight up good, exploitation is a commie myth and its all about the "wealth creators".

  4. #54
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    853 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Typed so quickly it doesnt make sense, the mark of the emoting T-Rex.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  5. #55


    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    With regards to others, I will give as sympathetic an ear as I receive.

    Treat me like an animal, and I'll act like one.

    If I feel that where I come from, and how I was raised will preclude another from giving fair consideration to the points I make, then they will receive that in return.

    If you want to have a class war... fine. If you want to shake hands... fine.
    What is this the "Lead Mean"? Did you perform some sort of reverse alchemy on the Golden Mean there?

  6. #56
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    5w6 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Pronunciation: /ˈprɪvɪlɪdʒ/

    a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group
    I can read dictionary definitions, too. This one says nothing about injustice or unfairness. How does that particular person or group gain the right/advantage/immunity in question? On what basis is it granted? Is the basis necessarily unjust? Is privilege ever deserved? Is it ever earned?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #57
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    One sx/sp


    Go to sleep, iguana.

    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  8. #58
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008


    I just came across a book review by one of my favorite christian thinkers right now, James K.A. Smith.

    In the book and review problems with power are addressed.

    While blatant grabs for domination are unjust, Crouch is equally concerned about benevolent exercises of power that fail to recognize the invisible structures of oppression and domination that even our "benevolent god playing" can exacerbate. (His summary of Kurt Verbeek's research on short-term missions is a poignant case study.) Indeed, his chapter on the "hiddenness of power" is one of the best in the book. As I read it, I was reminded of the parable David Foster Wallace told in his famous Kenyon College commencement address, "This is Water."

    There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, "Morning, boys, how's the water?" And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, "What the hell is water?"

    Crouch invites privileged fish to recognize, perhaps for the first time, the waters of power that constitute our environment, like when he—a lone, white American in a Mumbai airport check-in line—was promptly promoted to the front of the line, simply for being white and American it seemed. As he walked past the weary labourers in line before him, Crouch became conscious of the privileges he was afforded without earning. Which made him wonder about other instances of invisible power: "How many times have I been put at the front of the line without even knowing there was a line?"
    Ultimately though privilege isn't defined as something inherently bad.

    In the middle of the book, Crouch provides a helpful map of a whole lexicon of terms that we too often confuse (power, force, coercion, violence). I was most intrigued by his discussion of privilege and status. "Privilege," he tells us, "is a special kind of power. It is a form of power that requires no effort. Indeed, only in unusual circumstances do we become conscious of it at all." This is because privilege is "the ongoing benefits of past successful exercises of power;" it is power that "flows to us" as a result of past exercises of power that might not even have been my own. Indeed, privilege is often a generational inheritance.

    Privilege, Crouch emphasizes, is not bad, but it is dangerous. It is particularly susceptible to being invisible, in which case I am more likely to abuse it. Moreover, "we can cash in the benefits of privilege for many purposes other than the exercise of true power." But of course that is true of any of our powers and capabilities: it is always a question of what I will do with this power, whether earned or inherited. In the end, Crouch avoids the temptation to wallow in a favorite pastime of liberal self-consciousness: "privilege guilt" and self-loathing. To the contrary, Crouch offers a clear-eyed assessment: "Many exercises of true power begin by cashing in on our privilege, using it to launch us further than we could go on our own." You can't lament your privilege and cash in on it at the same time. If you're a third-generation alumnus of Dartmouth, then you are the recipient of unique gifts of power and privilege. The way to respond to that is to use your power well, not wish you didn't have it.
    He also gets to the philosophical heart of the issue and the fundamental difference in how power is viewed.

    But permit me one philosophical line of questioning. Crouch reads cultural phenomena in order to discern the spirit that animates them, the worldview that undergirds them. "The premise of the Western," for example, "as with the Nietzschean strain in literature from Lord of the Flies to The Hunger Games, is that when you strip away the trappings of civilization, you will find raw, primal conflict, bodies in competition to occupy all space." In the face of this, Crouch asks the most fundamental question: "What is the deepest truth about the world? Is the deepest truth a struggle for mastery and domination? Or is the deepest truth collaboration, cooperation, and ultimately love?" His reply is no less foundational: "I want to argue," he emphasizes, "that Nietzsche's 'idea' can be countered, point by point, with a very different vision of ultimate reality."

    This tack is just right: it goes to the root to recognize that how we conceive power comes down to fundamentally different mythologies, different faith-stances. What you think about power is always and ultimately rooted in some confession. In this sense, Crouch's critique and counter-narration unwittingly replays—in much more accessible prose—precisely John Milbank's critique of Nietzsche in his landmark book, Theology and Social Theory (especially chapter 10). A Christian understanding of power begins from a fundamentally different confessional standpoint. We refuse the myth that collapses power into violence and domination. We affirm a fundamentally different story in which power is a creative gift, and when we exercise that power rightly, we image God and love our neighbour.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #59
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009


    One example of privilege is that by practically no effort of our own, all of us are literate. It's something so basic to the audience here that most people never consider they had the privilege to learn how to read or write and can thus communicate in a way that some people don't have the opportunity to. I'd imagine that for 99% of us, this education wasn't difficult to obtain, and was obtained for us (in effect) by society before we were even born.

    This advantage, while unfair (mainly based in class and geography), makes those who have that advantage more capable than those who don't, not just because of appearance but by actual merit.

    It's important to separate this sort of privilege from the privilege that one receives based on traits that don't really make a difference but people discriminate by anyway.

    In any case I question the 'guilty self-loathing approach' as really being useful in the long term in terms of both working with what you got and trying to open doors and break down barriers.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  10. #60
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    748 sx/so


    i thought this was appropriate...

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