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  1. #41
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I've had the unpleasant experience of talking to a group, mentioning the general geographic area where I was from (nice, relatively wealthy neighborhood), and with virtually no other information I was told I must not know anything and the group just bought it like it must be true. I was pretty angry. Just cut off in the middle of explaining something and summarily told I was wrong and didn't know anything, with no explanation beyond neighborhood.
    I think to some extent stereotypes about 'sheltered rich kids' can be true on occasion, I've met people who really don't seem to understand that their experience isn't universal.

    But overall, I think it's a great myth that gets perpetuated that people with less privelege are automatically more 'worldly and understanding' and people with more are automatically 'naive and unaware'.

    People learn to function in their circles, but regardless of where or what you're from or who you are, if you cannot or do not look outside yourself and your own bubble of experience, while trying to stay aware of your own prejudices and how they influence perception, you're going to stay closed off and unaware about the world around you.

    Everyone has limitations on their experience, but opinions shouldn't be written off without examination of what those limits really are.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I'm curious how much of an advantage, in percentage terms, people think any particular privilege is worth, to justify the amount of fuss and attention the concept generates, and the sacrifices (whether in terms of liberties, or aggregate utility and competing civic virtues) many advocates propose as a means of rectifying it?
    The most insidious sorts cant be rectified and they're among the most simple, ie "you are like me, I therefore favour you, they are not like us, we therefore will disfavour them", its a variety of groupthink and if you're inclined to that sort of thing, and wont lose any sleep over it, then it will emerge and re-emerge as many times as one or another campaign is run making one sort of prejudice exceptionally taboo in the public mind.

    This exists in a very basic way in every single workplace, people performing different roles develop or inherit prejudices about people perform other roles and its determinental.

  3. #43
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    From Salon.com “Breaking Bad’s” Racial Politics: Walter White, Angry White Man

    He calls his wife. He spews all manner of bile and anger her way, yelling at her about how she was never grateful for what he did and how she treated him poorly, calling her a “bitch.”...It’s once viewers consider just how wide-ranging and epic Walter’s anger is that one of its true sources emerges: This is the voice of white male privilege, the angry, unfiltered sense that one is owed something and has had it taken away. Never mind that Walter built an empire worth $80 million. He always wanted more—respect or fear or worship—and he never got it. He could never quite get over the fact that other people weren’t placed on Earth to play supporting characters in his own story, and even in the series’ pilot, he’s bogged down by an overbearing boss and a wife who seems interested in anything but him...But since this is a TV show, the story must continue, and the longer it has gone on, the more the hollowness behind that sense of entitlement has become apparent.
    Forbes Op-ed, "Give Back? Yes, It's Time For The 99% To Give Back To The 1%"

    It’s time to gore another collectivist sacred cow. This time it’s the popular idea that the successful are obliged to “give back to the community.” That oft-heard claim assumes that the wealth of high-earners is taken away from “the community.” And beneath that lies the perverted Marxist notion that wealth is accumulated by “exploiting” people, not by creating value–as if Henry Ford was not necessary for Fords to roll off the (non-existent) assembly lines and Steve Jobs was not necessary for iPhones and iPads to spring into existence.

    Let’s begin by stripping away the collectivism. “The community” never gave anyone anything. The “community,” the “society,” the “nation” is just a number of interacting individuals, not a mystical entity floating in a cloud above them. And when some individual person–a parent, a teacher, a customer–”gives” something to someone else, it is not an act of charity, but a trade for value received in return....

    Each particular individual in the community who contributed to a man’s rise to wealth was paid at the time–either materially or, as in the case of parents and friends, spiritually. There is no debt to discharge. There is nothing to give back, because there was nothing taken away.

    Well, maybe there is–in the other direction. The shoe is on the other foot. It is “the community” that should give back to the wealth-creators....
    There is indeed a vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity: the Internal Revenue Service. And, at a deeper level, it is the monstrous perversion of justice that makes the IRS possible: an envy-ridden moral code that damns success, profit, and earning money in voluntary exchange.

    An end must be put to the inhuman practice of draining the productive to subsidize the unproductive. An end must be put to the primordial notion that one’s life belongs to the tribe, to “the community,” and that the superlative wealth-creators must do penance for the sin of creating value.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  4. #44

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    Jesus, America is really fucked up. I'm not going to miss it when its gone now.

  5. #45
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    While this article may be anti-collectivist it's also extremely anti-conservative as true conservatives put a premium on duty and permanent things. The idea that everybody wins in every commercial transaction is a concept that denies the moral reality of good and bad and offers a relativist view where the only value that exists is percieved value. It's pretty disgusting and ridiculous on the whole. It's also pretty galling that they have the audacity to hold up apple as an example. Yes, those Foxconn workers are getting the value they desire. Foxconn even throws in free suicide nets!
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #46
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Jesus, America is really fucked up. I'm not going to miss it when its gone now.
    When your empire falls, does it hurt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    While this article may be anti-collectivist it's also extremely anti-conservative as true conservatives put a premium on duty and permanent things.
    I felt it to be less of an exposition of the conservative viewpoint, than that of one of insane privilege.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  7. #47
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    I felt it to be less of an exposition of the conservative viewpoint, than that of one of insane privilege.
    Oh, I didn't take it that way. I'm just trying to distinguish the views here. It frustrates me that people that think like this have influence over conservatism. I know I allign myself with some libertarians that are of this mindset, but I really can't stomach the likes of the Koch brothers who clearly have ulterior motives and likely this same insane sense of entitlement and privilege.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #48
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    But attempting to use it as a metric of "who has it worse" is a misapplication of the concept, IMO. It's not math.
    Exactly this.

    The aforementioned black man has privilege that he can (e.g.) walk alone at night without worrying very much about being raped, whereas the woman has privilege that she can (e.g.) walk alone at night without worrying about getting arrested for no reason. And many other areas, for both. Simply adding up the areas where one has privilege over the other is not going to give a meaningful answer, and can even go beyond meaningless into harm.

    At the same time, it should be recognized that privilege/disadvantages tend to stack, so someone who is disadvantaged already might be less able to cope with an additional disadvantage, and it can be more harmful than it would be in someone who doesn't have as many disadvantages. Still, these are better addressed as specific situations (e.g. how can we help illiterate people who may also have barriers from being poor?) rather than tallying up a general "level of privilege" or something (e.g. only help the illiterate people who are also poor, screw the middle-class illiterate people since they're more "privileged").
    -end of thread-

  9. #49
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    I just walk off. Your loss, later. Have fun living your stereotype based life and believing that statistics over a certain percentage threshold has somehow become 100% applicable.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #50
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    These people live by averaged and probably live the average life because anything past average is now 100% true. And the become blind to what is not and therefore have shifted there reality to match what they think unknowingly and there fore propagating there stereotype and getting stuck in a loop that is self sustaining. Sadly I will let them walk in circles unless I care.
    Im out, its been fun

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