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  1. #11
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think it's rather sad how the natives were apparently beaten badly enough that you can get away with mocking them. Here's a simple mental exercise; how would you feel about a team being called the Washington Niggers, Spics, or Chinks? If those are not acceptable (and I pray you say they are not), why is the Washington Red Skins?

    Just imagine the logo, too. The profile of a stereotypical looking black dude, or Mexican bandito, or a Chinese mandarin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    But Larkie, if Native Americans find it offensive and a trivialization of the pain their ancestors endured, don't you think they should just change it? I mean, I get the big business aspect of it, but I feel the organization is famous enough to survive. For example, if I remember correctly, the Washington Wizards have changed their names many times.
    And consider that the name was originally Bullets, but was changed to Wizards because Bullets was considered disturbing for a city with a high gun violence rate.
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  2. #12
    Insert witty line here... Ponyboy's Avatar
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    This controversy is the best way to make people forget that the team sucks. Maybe they should at least "hint" about changing the name and watch the merchandise sales skyrocket!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    how would you feel about a team being called the Washington Niggers, Spics, or Chinks? If those are not acceptable (and I pray you say they are not), why is the Washington Red Skins?

    Just imagine the logo, too. The profile of a stereotypical looking black dude, or Mexican bandito, or a Chinese mandarin.
    Honestly, I never gave the whole offensive name argument much creedence. I pretty much took the stance of "Oh, whatever" but that is a very valid point. Never thought of it like that before.
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  3. #13
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    As a pretty avid football fan, any change is seen as bad somehow. I know people who are still mad that the Oilers left Houston. I know people who were furious that Houston decided on the name Texans, thinking it was cliche and boring. I know if the Steelers ever decided to change their logo or colors I'd throw the biggest shit fit this side of the Atlantic. Redskins I think is a word that is used so frequently that people don't even associate it with a racial slur anymore. Unlike terminology like the N word, or the AnyMinoritySlurHere word, this one's been thrown about with ease on a daily basis on TV for years--I literally grew up never making the association that this 'slur' is one at all. And I sort of want to just roll my eyes when I see people complain about offensive stuff in the first place. I debate it for the sake of debate, but the reality is that people post, write, and speak offensive things about females all the time. And people make profitable money off of that blatant sexism all the time.. So I can't say my heart is really in it as far as feeling bad for Native Americans. On top of all of THAT, it isn't a public owned venue.. it is completely privately owned.. and really, the owner is sure to be able to do whatever he wants and call it whatever he wants--we sort of went through a couple wars making sure he had that freedom.

    Having said. All of that. If I was the owner, I'd change it. Native Americans are still getting the short end of the stick on many aspects of life, and I think that's all bad enough without owning something that causes masses of Americans to throw around a hurtful term as if it were nothing because they literally grew up hearing it. And really, what else can you call the team besides their name? It's sort of a big deal--and names are changed in football all the time to suit less moral purposes. The NFL is such a big thing that children literally grow up modeling their entire lives on the prospect of being a part of it. It constitutes real, actual family bonding for many Americans, and the entire country is swept up in it whether they want to be or not. (I know so many people that wish football would just fall off the face of the Earth but it won't! So nyeh!) I think there is a bit of a responsibility in including all children from all backgrounds to dream about playing in the league without the fear of seeing such a strong term for them emblazoned on the very ground in which they want to play.

    And as much as I roll my eyes about people crying about how offensive shit always is.. I roll them just as much at people going "Well I don't want to because I like it like this!" It feels like I just served dinner to a 30 year old man crying about his food touching on his dinner plate while eyeing a suspicious vegetable he's never tried before after I spent forever cooking it all.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    To me, it's really not cool using a racial slur directed at victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing as a mascot/team name. One of my county's three public high school teams is called "Braves" and if there is a movement to change the name, I will support it however I can.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I know people who were furious that Houston decided on the name Texans, thinking it was cliche and boring.
    Worse than that: 'Texans' was the name of two unrelated NFL and AFL football teams from Dallas!

  6. #16
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    These same people bitch about the Indians for the same reason. They've lost all credibility right there.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    But Larkie, if Native Americans find it offensive and a trivialization of the pain their ancestors endured, don't you think they should just change it? I mean, I get the big business aspect of it, but I feel the organization is famous enough to survive. For example, if I remember correctly, the Washington Wizards have changed their names many times.
    NBA is so much better than Football! In Football, it's all about stupid static strategies every play and brute force. Basketball is more of a creative art. The wizards in the NBA also share a link to my username! And then there's even the funny NBA logo that combines the Wizards and Raptors!


  8. #18
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    NBA is so much better than Football! In Football, it's all about stupid static strategies every play and brute force. Basketball is more of a creative art. The wizards in the NBA also share a link to my username! And then there's even the funny NBA logo that combines the Wizards and Raptors!

    Not sure if trolling... or just a troll posting..
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  9. #19
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    NBA is so much better than Football! In Football, it's all about stupid static strategies every play and brute force. Basketball is more of a creative art. The wizards in the NBA also share a link to my username! And then there's even the funny NBA logo that combines the Wizards and Raptors!
    Well, basketball holds my attention much more than football does. If I'm going to watch a sport, I want to watch one where something happens.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I'm not especially attached to the name.

    I know people from seemingly every ethnic group except for actual native americans, ironic for someone from DC. There isn't much of a native population there, probably because the settlers who moved there kicked them all out and they never came back.

    I think that it's somewhat questionable to make a team mascot based on any characterization of a group, unless they make that characterization themselves. That said, I find the Cleveland Indians mascot considerably more offensive than say either the Redskins (logo, not the name) or the Chicago Blackhawks. But I don't find a Vikings mascot especially offensive, mostly because I'm pretty sure they're all long since dead and the name has no colored roots in, oh gee, all these people who used to live here and got kicked out or slaughtered.

    If someone made a sports team called "The Washington Jews" and had a mascot that danced around with Ashkenazi-hasid style black hats and payos and jingled gold coins when a touch down was scored, personally I'd find that ridiculous and sort of amusing. I'm certainly not hassidic, but I could separate the pure symbolism that a sports logo is (and that's all it really is, it's just a symbol) from the actual people. That's why I said somewhat above. Because the symbol doesn't actually mean anything. It's just a name and a picture and some vague concept of being tough or capable or ra ra ra we're a sports team and we're going to beat you.

    That said, people don't seem especially adept at separating the symbol from the reality in practice, and I think that would end up further reinforcing the image of Jews in general of being white Europeans of a specific variety, either that or Woody fucking Allen.



    So this is a round-a-bout way of saying just change the name because why really care? It's just a stupid name. You can beat your chest and scream at the TV at a different name and it'll be the exact same thing.
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