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Thread: 9/11 happened.

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    You also didn't live here when it happened. I did.
    You want to trade stories about terrorism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Exactly. The blind fervent patriotism and fear mongering experienced in this country in response to the attack were pretty off-putting. I'm of the opinion that mockery of the event in its entirety is equally reactionary and broad. It's these polarized and emotional responses that are hurting this country on almost all political fronts today. No good decisions can be made this way, and the government is having a field day with the frightened and enraged populous.

    Edit: oops too late. This was supposed to be at Raptor Wizard's first post.
    Yes, this explains my point in better detail.

    Basically, we don't need to be jacking up all of our security at the expense of general happiness and freedom. That's not what the founders intended. It's much better I think to place value on the American ideals that it was built from rather than it's popular culture. The terrorists have already won if they're making us lose our fundamental American rights simply by getting bad reactions out of us. We need to keep our own true selves and have hope to open things up for everyone.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You want to trade stories about terrorism?
    @msg_v2

    He's Irish. DON'T DO IT!

    (Though I'd be personally curious to hear)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The killing of defenceless, innocent non-combatants. Its a war crime if you believe there's a war on, if you're more in touch with reality its just a plain old crime.

    I dont really care about rememberence or memorials, I probably dont like the things you dont like but if you forget atrocities like 9/11 or make jokes about it you're just in need of a reality check because the guys who were responsible for it havent gone away.
    Ah, well, no, of course I'm against terrorism. I'm sure we agree there too. But I am not sure that nationalist image-focused tactics are a good way to reduce that - relatedly I think the 9/11 jokes that people are making are in response to the public glorification of it, not making light of the true atrocities of it. The jokes actually don't bother me as much because at least then it means people are thinking about it, and not just regurgitating or using it for personal status gain. It just seems like people are turning it into empty pro-American advertising, instead of keeping it as a true reminder. Overall it seems the way that 9/11 is "promoted" is probably doing more to encourage more terrorism than it is to repress it.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    (Though I'd be personally curious to hear)
    Moi aussi.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @msg_v2

    He's Irish. DON'T DO IT!

    (Though I'd be personally curious to hear)
    The answer would be long winded and time consuming, my point was that if their point had been "you werent there man" they were making it to the wrong person with reference to terrorism. I've lived that movie/book.

    Besides, 9/11 was a world shifting and shaking event, I remember exactly were I was and what I was doing and the TV footage of the planes hitting the towers on ALL channels, I remember calling my mum to let her know what had just happened and thinking about whether or not was a prelude to some act of aggression by some rival nation or nations, like were there jets and destroyers about to depart to some part of the world and render it to dust.

    I dont expect to see or hear anything like it again, not even when the US was considering immediate action against the chemical tyrant in Syria and Russia et al did all they could to block it and PM's questions in the UK involved questions about "armageddon" did I think the world got close to some sort catastrophic super power conflict. These events I've heard compared to the Kennedy assasination, I suppose maybe in terms of being memorable, although I think its more like the Cuban missile crisis.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Ah, well, no, of course I'm against terrorism. I'm sure we agree there too. But I am not sure that nationalist image-focused tactics are a good way to reduce that - relatedly I think the 9/11 jokes that people are making are in response to the public glorification of it, not making light of the true atrocities of it. The jokes actually don't bother me as much because at least then it means people are thinking about it, and not just regurgitating or using it for personal status gain. It just seems like people are turning it into empty pro-American advertising, instead of keeping it as a true reminder. Overall it seems the way that 9/11 is "promoted" is probably doing more to encourage more terrorism than it is to repress it.
    Perhaps, and I do think there's a possibility that a lot of that is about trying to keep the population mobilised and activated, militarism might need or require that.

    Although that said, even saying that, all those standard blame America first posts and stuff really do make the sorts of uber patriotism they claim about appear more valid or at least more worldly than I'm sure they intend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Perhaps, and I do think there's a possibility that a lot of that is about trying to keep the population mobilised and activated, militarism might need or require that.

    Although that said, even saying that, all those standard blame America first posts and stuff really do make the sorts of uber patriotism they claim about appear more valid or at least more worldly than I'm sure they intend.
    You know what, I don't think msg_v2 was just trying to be an ass when he pointed out that you didn't live here - one of the things that is very noticeable to someone who lived here both pre- and post- 9/11 is that there was, at least through my perspective, a fairly significant climate shift from basically just being happy about living in the States to a divisive sort of "whoever's the most patriotic deserves to be a citizen the most" and "must be on alert against outsiders" sort of atmosphere. So if it's been a military tactic sort of thing, it's been since that time, and again I don't really know how useful that would actually prove in terms of countering terrorism. And I do think that for someone living here, that climate shift could either just be adopted and run with, or it could easily be - as it has for myself and some others - disconcerting and uncomfortable. I am just not much of a nationalist, and it is alienating to me as a citizen to have my country be like this. It's sort of weird. I feel like I want to be a good American, but I am also inclined to distrust America more post-9/11. For myself and others like me, it has become a reaction maybe to that sort of distrust to look to the country as a source of blame. It is not that I do not have pride in the people here or want to support unity, but I am not always sure what it is exactly that I am supporting, and I am not sure of my voice in it when I am being questioned myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @msg_v2

    He's Irish. DON'T DO IT!

    (Though I'd be personally curious to hear)
    Well, he also doesn't understand the pervasiveness or influence of American national mythology. That's another part of it. But no, I'm not going to get into a debate about this with him. Too much like oppression olympics.

    I do know that I'm not going to be lectured about not "Fi'ing"" enough about this terrible tragedy from anyone. Certainly not from someone who isn't American. Guess what? Iraq happened because people were passionate about this. They're connected. It's 12 years later, and people still don't talk about this. Iraq was a "mistake" or an "act of manipulation." It was, but it was also a reaction to 9/11.

    People were passionate and cared deeply about the victims. They'd have been damned if they were going to let something like reason affect their opinions.


    Sorry, it happened 12 years ago. I ought to be able to talk about it and say something else about it other than "it was bad, m'kay."

    Tragedies are like exes. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is try and forget them as best as you can, and learn from what you remember. But no, that would be too offensive to the victims.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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    Also, someone came up with the bullshit idea that it represented the end of irony or something.

    I found an awesome essay commenting on this.

    http://splitsider.com/2011/09/comedy...ity-and-irony/
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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