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Thread: Misandry

  1. #51
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    Being seen as a wimp because he was hit by a female?That is misogyny. Both are wrong though.
    Its also misandry. Its degreading to the man, because he is seen as a wimp, not because he is, but because men are pigeonholed into being made to act a certain way by conventioanl standards. Like you said though, both are wrong.


    Misandry does exist but it's not systematic.
    I think you are very wrong in assuming this, but perhaps you do not perceive how a man could feel a victim of sexism because you are not a man yourself, and hence never thought about it? The same cant be said about the other women who have replied to this thread though.


    Also, it's easy to google statistics and facts. We can assume all we want but at the end of the day, all we can actually rely on is proof. According to the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN), one in six American women have been sexually assaulted (while one in 33 men have been sexually assaulted), and 90% of rapes are committed by men. According to National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV), around 1.3 million women are victims of physical assault by an intimate partner each year while it's estimated that 835,000 men are victims of the same. 85% of domestic violence victims are women.
    Well I have heard different stats, so I dont know. Its possible that women are, statsictically speaking, more often the victims of sexism. But I disagree that misandry isnt systematic. You said that 85 percent of victims of domestic violence are women. That means 15 percent are men, which is, IMO, enough to be considered systematic as well.

  2. #52
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    85% of domestic violence victims are women.
    I checked this and these stats seem a little biased.

    It's 85% of the cases reported to the police and leading to a legal lawsuit.

    But when you make a sociologic survey and ask people if they have been the victim of domestic violence, the numbers are closer: 35.6% of American women say yes, and so do 28.5% of the men. Some researchers (both in North America and Europe) have in fact shown that the prevalence of domestic violence against men is actually higher than against women. Yes, women seem more prone to aggress their partner on average.
    However, because of the obvious sexual dimorphism, men seem more brutal when they hit and hence, can wound their partner more badly and more violently, leading to a lot more women fatalities (5 to 1 in heterosexual couples).

    Domestic violence also depends largely on the socio-cultural context. It seems less frequent in Japan than, say, Saudi Arabia.
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  3. #53
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I dont have to justify anything to anyone, but I dont feel like being misread or misinterpreted so I will.

    No, I dont think that strong heroine characters are feminazis or whatver, I do, however think that many tv shows portay a politcal correctness which excuses alot of behavior in women which shoudnt be excused. Even reality reflects this. Ive known girls(as well as men) who throw objects when angry, and in women at least it is seen as cute or sexy when in fact there is nothing heroic about behaving that way.
    Then list all the shows that portray abusive women as heroic.

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    To be honest the men I see complaining online or in real life about women are all very, very similar and in many ways I think there's an envy of what womens lib and feminism are or have achieved, they feel left out and want some similar movement to attach themselves to or means to seek a profile.

    On one level I think that this reflects the exhaustion or abscence of any real movements for social change or social challenge, so the recent past is repeated or emulated ad infinitum, on another level I think some of the people involved in this trend have got real issues, mysogyny or simple hurt egos disguised as attacks on misandry.

    If I was asked to honestly appraise the power differentials and imbalances between the sexes I think it'd prove really telling that I'm very happy to be a man wouldnt want to wak up tommorrow as a woman, maybe if equality existed or liberation had truly taken place I wouldnt feel that way.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To be honest the men I see complaining online or in real life about women are all very, very similar and in many ways I think there's an envy of what womens lib and feminism are or have achieved, they feel left out and want some similar movement to attach themselves to or means to seek a profile.

    On one level I think that this reflects the exhaustion or abscence of any real movements for social change or social challenge, so the recent past is repeated or emulated ad infinitum, on another level I think some of the people involved in this trend have got real issues, mysogyny or simple hurt egos disguised as attacks on misandry.

    If I was asked to honestly appraise the power differentials and imbalances between the sexes I think it'd prove really telling that I'm very happy to be a man wouldnt want to wak up tommorrow as a woman, maybe if equality existed or liberation had truly taken place I wouldnt feel that way.
    This reflects my thoughts as well.

  6. #56
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Just because I am sociable, enthusiastic, polite and nice doesn't mean I want to have sex with you.

    Ditto. I run into this problem sometimes too. A lot of straight women are equally incapable of just being friends with straight men.

    On one level I think that this reflects the exhaustion or abscence of any real movements for social change
    Well, I agree that there are no real movements for change. We have lifestyles, causes, and proper speech-forms/topics. Activism is no longer a force for change, but a tribe one joins. Keeping up with all that stuff is too exhausting and draining. I couldn't do it, and none of it accomplishes anything anyway.

    I think half of the reaction to threads like this is just more bitching about men having feelings, though, at the end of the day.

    How many times do people use the word "whiney"? Why do women get to ''express themselves'" and "stick up for their needs" while men who do this are "whiners"?

    And of course we have the same men calling other men "whiners" offering penises sympathetic ears to the introspective disappointments of women. I see it all over the internet, and it's annoying. Actually, I'm much less irritated by the women who just misunderstand whatever I'm saying than I am by the men who are just giving virtual mustache rides and going "right on". I'm surprised more people don't see through that act.

    I like sex and I like love and I get upset when I have issues getting those things, just like women, only I'm not supposed to talk about it for some reason. It's fucking retarded. If I'm whining, then so are all the women complaining about it all the time. Yes... I get that you don't care about it as much because you want to fuck them, but show some self-awareness, please

    My issue, I realized, is actually less with women and more men latching on to these things without any real understanding (or feigned ignorance) of what the men or women are talking about.

    I don't get why it's so fucking hard for some people to understand that gender roles exist for men, not just women. A lot of feminists have realized this, so I don't understand why the White Knights of the Holy Order of Moustache Riders haven't. It's nothing more than old-fashioned chivalrous bullshit of wanting to "treat a lady right." No intellectual analysis or understanding of gender is actually present.

    Basically, it amounts to "man up and stop begin a misogynist pussy", and somehow that's "progressive." Ok......

    This post is going to cause a shitshow, probably, so I may need to step away from this place for a few days. I can't imagine why, but for some reason, people tend to think this kind of stuff is controversial.
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  7. #57
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    This clearly describes me, but I have never been judged or ridiculed because of these traits. And nobody ever said I looked "feminine", nor that I behaved like a woman.
    Similarly, I display many traits typically considered masculine, but I have never been accused of "trying to be a man". We are in the minority, one that fortunately is growing, but is still a minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    So you think that I call women who are not traditional female stereotypes misandrists and feminazis?
    There is more gender bias a mong women who are "traditional female stereotypes". They are more likely to hold others to those stereotypes as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    Being seen as a wimp because he was hit by a female? That is misogyny. Both are wrong though. Misandry does exist but it's not systematic. Also, it's easy to google statistics and facts. We can assume all we want but at the end of the day, all we can actually rely on is proof. According to the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN), one in six American women have been sexually assaulted (while one in 33 men have been sexually assaulted), and 90% of rapes are committed by men. According to National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV), around 1.3 million women are victims of physical assault by an intimate partner each year while it's estimated that 835,000 men are victims of the same. 85% of domestic violence victims are women.
    Misogyny and misandry are both systemic, embedded in the gender roles and expectations of the status quo maintained for generations. We have only recently begun to loosen its grip. If you want statistics on gender bias in violence and death, just consider how many more men than women are killed and injured in wars. Requiring only men to put their lives on the line in this way has been codified in public law until very recently. Real feminists understand that with equal rights come equal responsibilities. Assigning or limiting either one based on gender cuts both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If I was asked to honestly appraise the power differentials and imbalances between the sexes I think it'd prove really telling that I'm very happy to be a man wouldnt want to wak up tommorrow as a woman, maybe if equality existed or liberation had truly taken place I wouldnt feel that way.
    When I was 10-12, I sometimes wished I were a boy, but only because at that time it seemed boys were able to do more things that were interesting and fun. I soon realized I could do them too if I wanted, that those limitations were far less ironclad than many people around me assumed. I no longer see any benefit to being male, and am quite content to be female. It is luck of the draw in this life, and really doesn't make that much difference, unless I let it.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I don't get why it's so fucking hard for some people to understand that gender roles exist for men, not just women. A lot of feminists have realized this, so I don't understand why the White Knights of the Holy Order of Moustache Riders haven't. It's nothing more than old-fashioned chivalrous bullshit of wanting to "treat a lady right." No intellectual analysis or understanding of gender is actually present.

    This post is going to cause a shitshow, probably, so I may need to step away from this place for a few days. I can't imagine why, but for some reason, people tend to think this kind of stuff is controversial.
    You won't get any flack from me. I don't know if this topic is so much controversial as emotional for many people. It questions deep-seated assumptions that they don't even realize they have. Sometimes it tells them that some of the things they were raised to believe or do because they were just "right" are in fact "wrong". That can be hard to digest, especially for someone who has trouble considering the matter objectively. No idea is so unpalatable that it cannot at least be stared in the face and examined.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Sometimes misandry is compared to reverse racism against whites, but this is a highly erroneous comparison because gender roles have been restrictive to both sexes in a way that white supremacy is not restrictive towards whites.

    When a black person does something it is more often a association with their race whereas whites are looked at more as individuals. Whiteness is the default in most western societies, any non-whites are lumped into the category of minority, gender roles have participation of society, not solely men oppressing women into patriarchy.

    What this means is that some groups of white males might have just as legitimate complaints relating to their gender roles as their white female counterparts, but both are privileged in relation to other race/gender groupings.

    This is what I see when I look at the majority of feminist and mras, white middle class college educated, see they have a lot more in common than they think.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    Misandry definitely exists but misogyny is much more prevalent.
    Hmm...I don't know about that. One thing is for sure, misandry is much more accepted and, if I can type this without being overcome by nausea, fashionable.
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  10. #60
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post

    There is more gender bias a mong women who are "traditional female stereotypes". They are more likely to hold others to those stereotypes as well.
    Yeah, I have certainly noticed this.



    You won't get any flack from me. I don't know if this topic is so much controversial as emotional for many people. It questions deep-seated assumptions that they don't even realize they have. Sometimes it tells them that some of the things they were raised to believe or do because they were just "right" are in fact "wrong". That can be hard to digest, especially for someone who has trouble considering the matter objectively. No idea is so unpalatable that it cannot at least be stared in the face and examined.
    I have found this to be true. I have come to the conclusion that whenever someone thinks that no, this idea cannot be examined, and you are wrong for trying to examine, that the only thing this means is that they aren't sure why they believe that themselves, and don't like acknowledging that fact. They want to defend what they already believe.

    I mean, if there idea really was correct and true and beyond questioning, they would either be able to explain why, or at least they would not take such strong objections to it being criticized. When someone truly knows something to be true. people stating things that are untrue tends not to produce that kind of defensive reaction.

    It's telling, to me, if someone cannot dispute what I am saying and is resorting to personal attacks. This tells me that the person is unsure as of the truth value of the belief. Although I suppose that tells us nothing about the actual belief and whether it is true or not, merely how one person really feels about this belief. And if they do not really believe in their belief as much as I believe in mine, and I have examined it as best as I can, why should it merit further consideration? It shouldn't, because it's really about them, and what they believe, and is not about me, and what I believe.

    I used to burn myself out truly considering every point of view everyone gave, and living in a complete mess of doubt. Then I realized that many people will feign certainty.
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