User Tag List

First 31112131415 Last

Results 121 to 130 of 209

Thread: Misandry

  1. #121
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    Gender relations are NOT the same as white supremacy,
    You're right. Because most people now have no problem understanding what's wrong with racism. Whereas the vast majority of people, yourself included, still struggle to grasp what gender equality is all about.
    Further more gender is radically altered by race, class, sexual orientation, a black women is not considered a "woman" or womanly in the same way a white woman is, the traits of traditional femininity(submissiveness, civility, pleasantness, emotional) that feminists have complained so much about are attributed to heterosexual white women.
    So you're saying white women have it worse?

    Femininity is a strait-jacket, a ludicrous set of rules designed to keep women in their place, but it is certainly not hard to live up to. All a woman has to do is be passive, incompetent, helpless and whining—the last thing that is expected of the feminine woman is that she should actually achieve anything. Meanwhile men are driven by the need to succeed, to prove themselves, to be better than the next man, all without showing their feelings. Femininity enervates, masculinity warps. ~J Smith
    White women are the only oppressed group that has intimate relationships with their oppressors,
    So if a black woman has sex with a white man, she will automatically become liberated? Hallelujah! If only someone had told your country's slaves this truth. Saved everyone a lot of bother...

  2. #122
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    @salome

    No he is suggesting that sexual relations are a sign of understanding/equality/ communion between people and that some cannot be fully oppressing you if you are having sex with them. Very flaw and illustrated to be so with two easy example from his so claimed more free non-white women. Black women have had sexual relations whit white men long before the abolishment of slavery some were very much a rape scenario others involved them being kept as unofficial wives. One scenario clearly extends them no more rights the other while it shows individual whute man treaty her with a degree of respect it doesn't change the total perspective of society an it doesn't mean that he sees her as an equal just because she is his partner.

    Secondly, Indian widow burning. Those wives have sex with their husbands but it doesn't change the fact they they expected to throw their lives away upon his death.

  3. #123
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo;
    Black women have had sexual relations whit white men long before the abolishment of slavery some were very much a rape scenario others involved them being kept as unofficial wives.
    That was *my* point. I keep forgetting I have to be so boringly literal around here to have any chance of being understood....

  4. #124
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Femininity is a strait-jacket, a ludicrous set of rules designed to keep women in their place, but it is certainly not hard to live up to. All a woman has to do is be passive, incompetent, helpless and whining—the last thing that is expected of the feminine woman is that she should actually achieve anything. Meanwhile men are driven by the need to succeed, to prove themselves, to be better than the next man, all without showing their feelings. Femininity enervates, masculinity warps. ~J Smith
    Yes. I wonder sometimes whether historical definitions of masculine and feminine have simply sorted those fundamental human qualities into "empowering/effective/good" and "limiting/ineffective/bad". The labels then become normative in the worst way, rather than descriptive. A woman wanting to develop and take advantage of qualities in the masculine bucket is then accused of trying to be "like a man", just as black people who are educated, accomplished, and financially successful are sometimes accused of trying to be "white".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    You could say the same thing for many kinds of misogyny... that it doesn't target women specifically because they are women, but rather women who don't meet certain expectations.
    I typed out a separate reply to you, but most of what I think I also say in the paragraph below, so for the sake of avoiding repetition that's where my reply will be. Can you explain the thing about "women who don't meet certain expectations" by giving some examples? Even a woman who adheres 100% to society's standards would still not be at an advantage where sexism is concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    The inherent flaw in your arguement seems to be that "patriarchy = men". Men can be victims of sexism just as women can, it doesnt matter whos purpotrating that sexism. And its really not solely a question of class struggle, as people seem to think. Power, like sexism, can happen to groups as well as to individuals. You seem to think sexism is only a group/class struggle thing, and this is seeing things through the lens of Marxist Dialectic/polictal correctness, ie the belief that all groups which are currently disfavored are somehow special, since at the end of history they will take the power from those who currently detain it.
    You're making far too many assumptions about what I said. I didn't say anywhere that groups which are currently disfavoured are special because one day they'll take the power from anyone, that's one big conclusion to jump into... wtf?

    My argument doesn't equate patriarchy with men. Rather, my argument is that patriarchy as a system is designed to favour men over men (using just those basic traits here). A system can end up hurting those it's designed to favour. For example: imagine a society in which women were more powerful than men. Traits that society considered "masculine" were deemed undesirable because that society treats men as inferiors. In this case, women who displayed those traits would get in trouble for acting "below their station", as those traits would be considered demeaning. In essence, a system can be designed to favour a group over another but still end up hurting individuals belonging to that group. What I'm saying here is that patriarchy favours men as a group but when it hurts individual men, in situations like mocking them for crying, enjoying domestic tasks, wearing dresses, and so on, it's because they're displaying traits considered to be below them which makes them an object for ridicule and punishment. I'm not denying that individual men get hurt by patriarchy, what I'm saying is that when this happens is because of misogyny itself.

    If we're talking things other than transgressing gender roles and such, like a scenario of a rich woman vs. a working class man, then it that case it's due to other types of prejudice. That woman would be at a disadvantage in a situation that was more related to gender (like in a meeting with rich men) but at an advantage in situations related to money (against the working class man). Having prejudice held against you isn't a neat ticky box you can or can't check, it's more like a ton of layers. You can face a prejudice over certain aspects of yourself in some situations but have the upper hand against other people in others. That's because several types of prejudice can overlap and different situations can happen. For instance, that working class man would be at an advantage over a woman in his position, if they were both physically fit then in many situations they would have an advantage over a disabled person, if they were white then in other situations they'd be better off than a black person, and so on.

  6. #126
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I would prefer to learn what YOUR thoughs are, unless I am to assume you agree with everything in the article you quoted . . .
    You can treat articles I post as a proxy for my position.

    I wouldn't post it if I didn't agree.

  7. #127
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    @salome

    No he is suggesting that sexual relations are a sign of understanding/equality/ communion between people and that some cannot be fully oppressing you if you are having sex with them. Very flaw and illustrated to be so with two easy example from his so claimed more free non-white women. Black women have had sexual relations whit white men long before the abolishment of slavery some were very much a rape scenario others involved them being kept as unofficial wives. One scenario clearly extends them no more rights the other while it shows individual whute man treaty her with a degree of respect it doesn't change the total perspective of society an it doesn't mean that he sees her as an equal just because she is his partner.

    Secondly, Indian widow burning. Those wives have sex with their husbands but it doesn't change the fact they they expected to throw their lives away upon his death.
    The point I was trying to make in my post is being misunderstood, I'm not suggesting white women(or any women) face no gender related discrimination(legally, socially, culturally), the crux of my point is that gender roles(for both males and females) are not linearly oppressive across all situations, there are points where gender is radically altered by intersections of race, class, ect., there are genuine areas in which being a certain kind of male is more of a disadvantage, gender cannot be viewed completely independent of these other intersections, also these intersections do not automatically entail addictive or subtractive effects.
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari

  8. #128
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    The point I was trying to make in my post is being misunderstood, I'm not suggesting white women(or any women) face no gender related discrimination(legally, socially, culturally), the crux of my point is that gender roles(for both males and females) are not linearly oppressive across all situations, there are points where gender is radically altered by intersections of race, class, ect., there are genuine areas in which being a certain kind of male is more of a disadvantage, gender cannot be viewed completely independent of these other intersections, also these intersections do not automatically entail addictive or subtractive effects.

    Could you give some example of this because it is still not clear to me how female oppression (the dominaing expectations of female behavior) vary between racial groups? I understand there are intersections of race and culture but I don't see what you are trying to connect that too.

    Gender is not linearly oppressive? I would say yes it is. Historical women were considered inferior. And black people were considered inferior. Just because a white woman might have more standing than a black man doesn't mean she isn't experiencing oppression, and a type of oppression that black man might not be sensitive too and may have displayed the same behaviors to his black wife.

    I still don't see your point. Not experiencing one type a certain discrimination doesn't mean it invalidates the discrimination you do face. An example being a working class white male. He will face disadvantages in regards to class which shouldn't be ignored just because he fits the race and gender demographic of the historically powerull

  9. #129
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Moved out some bile-spitting posts. Would greatly prefer not to have to do that again.

  10. #130
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,028

    Default

    I'd like some women in this thread to try an experiment. It will take a month. For this entire month, the only emotion you are permitted to express around other people is happiness. Anger, sadness, frustration, jealousy, fear.... nothing else permitted. Everything else has got to be hidden.

    If anyone is willing to take me up on this, let me know! I'd love to know what you make of the experience. Is it more or less trifling than you thought before?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

Similar Threads

  1. Misandry - Is it an issue with females?
    By Jeremy8419 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 07-09-2016, 10:38 AM
  2. Early Feminism and Modern Misandry
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 04-30-2014, 10:20 AM
  3. Misandry, Misogyny and Misanthropy?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-10-2010, 09:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO