User Tag List

First 21011121314 Last

Results 111 to 120 of 209

Thread: Misandry

  1. #111
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    This place…I liked it better when I couldn't access it.So much useless twisting.
    If a black man called me a 'cracker' it wouldn't offend me, because it has no historically based emotional charge for me, being a white male, born and raised in racial privilege.
    If I called him nigger, it would be much more likely to be perceived as a insult, given its historical 'weight' in 'Merka for blacks.
    Gender relations are similar structured. Men cannot claim victimhood while simultaneously looking through the lens of power.
    I for one have never felt victimized in the least for being a man.
    Gender relations are NOT the same as white supremacy, I love how (white)feminists make these erroneous comparisons, white supremacy as a system is much much more asymmetrical in terms of who exploits who and how restrictive the system is to their individual identities, whites are barely restricted by white supremacy whereas society has held both men and women to restrictive roles based on a division of labor, one has a clear benefactor while the other requires the sacrifice and cooperation of both sexes, it is not this stupid dichotomy feminists have "theorized" . Further more gender is radically altered by race, class, sexual orientation, a black women is not considered a "woman" or womanly in the same way a white woman is, the traits of traditional femininity(submissiveness, civility, pleasantness, emotional) that feminists have complained so much about are attributed to heterosexual white women.

    White women are the only oppressed group that has intimate relationships with their oppressors, live longer than their oppressors, receive lighter sentences than their oppressors in the criminal justice system, have their oppressors give their lives to save them, included in their oppressor's social class and communities, they even spend more money than their oppressors, I could go on and on..........
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari

  2. #112
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    Gender relations are NOT the same as white supremacy, I love how (white)feminists make these erroneous comparisons, white supremacy as a system is much much more asymmetrical in terms of who exploits who and how restrictive the system is to their individual identities, whites are barely restricted by white supremacy whereas society has held both men and women to restrictive roles based on a division of labor, one has a clear benefactor while the other requires the sacrifice and cooperation of both sexes, it is not this stupid dichotomy feminists have "theorized" . Further more gender is radically altered by race, class, sexual orientation, a black women is not considered a "woman" or womanly in the same way a white woman is, the traits of traditional femininity(submissiveness, civility, pleasantness, emotional) that feminists have complained so much about are attributed to heterosexual white women.

    White women are the only oppressed group that has intimate relationships with their oppressors, live longer than their oppressors, receive lighter sentences than their oppressors in the criminal justice system, have their oppressors give their lives to save them, included in their oppressor's social class and communities, they even spend more money than their oppressors, I could go on and on..........


    A part of this I feel it's neccessacary to critique:

    Yes typical traits of "femininity" are stereotypically associated to white women and not to black women. However this is typically coupled with the idea of black women being undesirable. The ideals of gender therefore are not altered based on race, with american black women having different markers of femininity. it's is simply that black females are seen as particularly bad at being womanly. Similarly there is a line I mysogynistic thinking that claims Asian women are the ideal because of their supposed intense levels of submissiveness and girlishness. Different cultures (which may or may not fall in line with races, orientations and classes) may have different perspective on genders but the crux of people's argument lies in the fact that the dominant culture tends to enforce it's ideas on less powerful cultures.


    That being said I agree that misadry is an issue and the focus of the tread should be on that.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    A part of this I feel it's neccessacary to critique:

    Yes typical traits of "femininity" are stereotypically associated to white women and not to black women. However this is typically coupled with the idea of black women being undesirable. The ideals of gender therefore are not altered based on race, with american black women having different markers of femininity. it's is simply that black females are seen as particularly bad at being womanly. Similarly there is a line I mysogynistic thinking that claims Asian women are the ideal because of their supposed intense levels of submissiveness and girlishness. Different cultures (which may or may not fall in line with races, orientations and classes) may have different perspective on genders but the crux of people's argument lies in the fact that the dominant culture tends to enforce it's ideas on less powerful cultures.


    That being said I agree that misadry is an issue and the focus of the tread should be on that.
    Black women in the US(especially during slavery) were often denied womanhood because it was more convenient for slavemasters to view them as masculine based on the physical work that was required of them so yeah they are viewed as being bad at being womanly(plus the gender roles and sexual practices the slaves brought from west africa did not gel with euro american ones). In fact races are gendered as well, blacks are viewed as more masculine(with black males as hyper-masculine) and asians view as more feminine(with asian women as hyper-feminine), whites are near the middle, this often hurts black women and asian men in dating because they are not seen as embodying their gender idealshttp://racereport.com/gendered-race-...types-overlap/. Another point is that slavemasters wanted to make sure there was no familial lineage legally so mothers could be separated from their families at any time, they were denied motherhood as well.
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari

  4. #114
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    Black women in the US(especially during slavery) were often denied womanhood because it was more convenient for slavemasters to view them as masculine based on the physical work that was required of them so yeah they are viewed as being bad at being womanly. In fact races are gendered as well, blacks are viewed as more masculine(with black males as hyper-masculine) and asians view as more feminine(with asian women as hyper-feminine), whites are near the middle, this often hurts black women and asian men in dating because they are not seen as embodying their gender idealshttp://racereport.com/gendered-race-...types-overlap/. Another point is that slavemasters wanted to make sure there was no familial lineage legally so mothers could be separated from their families at any time.
    The point being that those gender are not intrinsically to the race but decided by the majority culture (notice that feminine Asians and hyper masculine blacks circle around "normal" whites). And you cannot use the idea of black women stereotypically not being considered submissive as an argument to say that their isn't pressure put on white women to model certain behaviors.

    Plus you just ignoring that for a long time the relationships were far more asymmetrical with women not having the right to vote, divorce, avoid marital rape, avoid regular rape, hold property or have rights to their child(no a concern for men).

  5. #115
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    Black women in the US(especially during slavery) were often denied womanhood because it was more convenient for slavemasters to view them as masculine based on the physical work that was required of them so yeah they are viewed as being bad at being womanly(plus the gender roles and sexual practices the slaves brought from west africa did not gel with euro american ones). In fact races are gendered as well, blacks are viewed as more masculine(with black males as hyper-masculine) and asians view as more feminine(with asian women as hyper-feminine), whites are near the middle, this often hurts black women and asian men in dating because they are not seen as embodying their gender idealshttp://racereport.com/gendered-race-...types-overlap/. Another point is that slavemasters wanted to make sure there was no familial lineage legally so mothers could be separated from their families at any time, they were denied motherhood as well.
    Black women were denied "ladyhood", as Sojourner Truth makes plain in her speech "Ain't I a woman". They were firmly saddled with the hard work of womanhood, though: giving birth, raising children (often not their own), cooking, cleaning, mending, farming, etc. In fact, one of their most important functions was reproduction: making more slaves. Yes, black women were denied sexual freedom, rights over their own children, and were expected to submit to their masters; but when white women had it better, it was due to the kindness of their "masters", not any widely recognized rights.

    It seems the argument here is mostly over semantics. Gender bias pervades our society. It has been much harder on women over the ages than on men, but anything that limits people based on gender is irrational, ultimately counterproductive, and an affront to our basic humanity. I am less interested in how we want to bin and label the various aspects of gender bias than in how we can best get rid of it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #116
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,931

    Default




    His mental picture is actually a pretty real possibility - some hardcore feminists are that crazy.

    Dating will become pretty hard at the current pace.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  7. #117
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    His mental picture is actually a pretty real possibility - some hardcore feminists are that crazy.
    Yeah, but what is that? 5% of the female population?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  8. #118
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yeah, but what is that? 5% of the female population?
    Misogyny is a bigger concern, I'll concede.

    Misandry as a counter-phobic reaction to misogyny is on a pretty strong uptrend though. And they have political correctness on their side, which is scary.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  9. #119
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Misandry as a counter-phobic reaction to misogyny is on a pretty strong uptrend though. And they have political correctness on their side, which is scary.
    Can you back up your claim with something substantial?

  10. #120
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    All it takes to get labeled a misandrist is to dispassionately discuss gender issues with a realistic accounting of history and the current state of affairs. Doing so, ironically, gets you labeled not just a misandrist but also histrionic and shrill. In most cases what is labeled misandry is an inverted instance of misogyny (for instance- the extreme narrow expectations of men to suppress and control their emotions is rooted in the cultural hierarchy that puts reason and rationality, associated with men, over passion and emotion, associated with women--despite the fact that every human being is capable of reason, rationality, passion, and emotion). Unequal expectations for men to provide and fight is the correlative of the resistance to accept women in the provider/fighter role as well. Yes. Gender inequality is shitty for everyone. THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING.

    I do not in any sense hate men. I adore men- my dad and brothers are awesome, I'm happily married for 15 years, and I'm raising a delightful son. But we don't live in a cultural vacuum, so I'll be raising him to be more aware of things like consent and objectification that many young men seem to be completely oblivious to. If that's misandry... I don't want to finish this sentence.

Similar Threads

  1. Misandry - Is it an issue with females?
    By Jeremy8419 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 07-09-2016, 10:38 AM
  2. Early Feminism and Modern Misandry
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 04-30-2014, 10:20 AM
  3. Misandry, Misogyny and Misanthropy?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-10-2010, 09:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO