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Thread: Misandry

  1. #91
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I just need a woman who will bake muffins for me 24/7. I want to come back from my job at corporate asset management of investment portfolios and have MUFFINs damnit. And if she gives me cupcakes instead of muffins because they are "kind of like muffins" it's over. As long as she gives me muffins, I'll see that shes well-treated. I'll buy her a new vacuum cleaner every month.

    I know I can get muffins at the store or bake them myself, but what's the point of being in a relationship then?
    I'd prefer to make my own muffins. I don't want to be dependent on a man, woman, or bakery for them. I will then also have more control over what they are like. Of course, if you want to share your recipes with me, that's another story.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #92
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    If you do not beleive misandry is a problem, why do you care so much? So you can talk about misogyny? Wrong thread for that.
    OP asked "Does it exist? Is it a legitimate concern? Is it getting worse, or better? Is it even worth talking about?"

    I answered.
    What advantage do you perceive in trying to shut me down?

  3. #93
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Not trying to "shut you down", Im not saying "you dont think misandry is a problem, so fuck off", you have a right to hold and express the opinion that it isnt a real problem, Im just trying to keep the focus of this discussion on misandry, whereas you talked alot about misogyny also and I feel like this might not be the place for that.

  4. #94
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing? I guess. But I talk about what I want, where I want. And it's common knowledge that "misandry" is a term dreamt up by and mostly used by misogynists. So it's hardly surprising those themes are going to come up here. Stick around, you might learn something.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Misandry is a myth. Sexist attitudes affect men as well as women, of course they do, but for misandry to be a cultural problem, men would have to be oppressed BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN. This doesn't happen, because men still hold most power in society. Sometimes men are mocked for not being "manly" enough. That's not "misandry".
    Think about it.
    I disagree. Though men still hold most power in society, most men don't hold this power. You speak of male privilege as though it's a super power that any man can wield at any time. Men, in general, do have certain privileges or benefits due to gender roles if they abide by those roles. And so do women.

    You say that men being mocked, ridiculed or demeaned for not being "manly" enough isn't oppressive and isn't misandry because they are being mocked for their personality, not their gender; however, they wouldn't be getting mocked for their personality if they weren't men, therefore, it is both oppressive and misandristic. And I assure you that if it was the other way around, you would throw the misogyny card in a heartbeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You're missing the point though. (Wow. I say that to you a lot.)
    The oppression of women is historical fact. You can't just borrow Greek terms to invent a word which is the supposed equivalent for men and pretend it has anything like the same cultural significance. Well, you can. But you're likely to be laughed at.
    It's interesting how you disregard definitions in the dictionary that don't support your world view, but give full credence to modern terminology such as male privilege and use it as the basis for all of your arguments. I'm sure dictionaries were created by men to oppress women anyway. Misandry is definitely real and it's most evident in rabid feminist circles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Actually, both were subtle expressions of misogyny.
    If you substitute "I love black people" for "I love women", you might see the nature of the problem.
    I don't see the nature of the problem. Could you elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You are not understanding the nature of privilege. No one said it confers unequivocal benefit on any group. It harms EVERYONE. What you are referring to is the cost of that privilege.
    Think about the monarchy, for example. They lead highly constrained lives, yet no one could seriously question their (unearned) privilege.
    Being born into a monarchy is not equivalent to having a penis. Maybe it would help explain your stance if you specified what privileges in particular you are referring to and how that relates to the average man vs how that affects the average woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Your Urban Dictionary definition of misandry is non-standard. The 5 online dictionaries I looked at define misandry as hatred, dislike, mistrust, or prejudice toward men and boys. The attitude of misandry has not resulted in oppression of men as misogyny has resulted in oppression of women, but it has resulted in other behaviors that limit, judge, or ridicule men for things that women are not limited, judged, or ridiculed about. Discouraging a son from becoming a nurse would fall into this category, as would an employer denying men paternity leave while allowing women maternity leave. These attitudes and actions are just as much historical fact as is the oppression of women, and are often two sides of the same coin. The man who wants time off to care for a new baby is denied, because after all, that's the woman's role.
    Well said.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Your Urban Dictionary definition of misandry is non-standard. The 5 online dictionaries I looked at define misandry as hatred, dislike, mistrust, or prejudice toward men and boys. The attitude of misandry has not resulted in oppression of men as misogyny has resulted in oppression of women, but it has resulted in other behaviors that limit, judge, or ridicule men for things that women are not limited, judged, or ridiculed about. Discouraging a son from becoming a nurse would fall into this category, as would an employer denying men paternity leave while allowing women maternity leave. These attitudes and actions are just as much historical fact as is the oppression of women, and are often two sides of the same coin. The man who wants time off to care for a new baby is denied, because after all, that's the woman's role.
    What that dismissal of misandry means is that most of the oppression men face is because they are not gender normative and most feminist attribute this to misogyny or homophobia. It means that men are not oppressed as men but I heavily disagree with this narrow minded feminist interpretation, its suggesting that because men hold most positions of public power that they are looking out for one another and keeping women down against their will. But men and women share intimate relationships with one another, most men actually care very deeply for the females in their lives, their mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, the patriarchy is not a Machiavellian scheme, it is a system where women have just as much responsibility for perpetrating as men, it is based on social norms, women in most societies hold men to restrictive gender expectations just as men hold women to them. Patriarchy requires both men and women to sacrifice their individual autonomy to care for children, it can be argued that it restricts women more to being dependents but it is disingenuous to argue men face no restrictions based on their gender normative identity.

    The mras are not making it any better by framing this as reverse discriminations because a lot of the grievances aimed at cis-genderd white males is because of true past injustices white society has committed against racial minorities and non gender normative groups, it is reactionary anger and indignation. There are a lot of men that are oppressed as men though, often in combination with other oppressed identities(race, sexual orientation, class, ect), black males are oppressed because of their race and gender, their hyper-masculine stereotype makes them suspect(as criminals and rapists) in US society that colored females, white males, and white females experience less often, thousands of black males were lynched in the US from 1880 to 1960 compared to less than 200 black females and this was because of their race and gender combination, they were viewed as the biggest threat to white supremacy and specifically to white womanhood. I suspect some mras don't focus on this kind of gender informed racism because white females and males were complicit in this terrible historical epoch of US history.

    Even white males who fail to achieve economically don't get much sympathy from society, this is the downside to having the expectation to be economically independent and lots of white males don't live up to that ideal, men make up the majority of the homeless population and a lot of homeless shelters only accept females. Oppression of men is a genuine concern but some of it is being carried out by men themselves, in war, homicides, the criminal justice system, sexual competition, ect, it can't be framed as simply most women oppressing most men, feminist and mras are looking at two sides of the same coin.
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  7. #97

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    The overanalysis is burgeoning. It is the enemy of life.

  8. #98
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The overanalysis is burgeoning. It is the enemy of life.
    Are you sure you're an NT?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  9. #99

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    I agree with people who have said it doesn't exist. Most prejudice towards men tends to stem from factors other than their gender (like their race or social status) or it tends to come from the fact that they don't adhere to those gender roles... in which case, it's usually because patriarchy determines that a man acting in a way that isn't stereotypically masculine is demeaning, because not being a man by whichever standards society has is demeaning. It's not something that specifically targets men because they're men, which would be the definition of misandry as a prejudice applied to men.

  10. #100
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnknownUser View Post
    I agree with people who have said it doesn't exist. Most prejudice towards men tends to stem from factors other than their gender (like their race or social status) or it tends to come from the fact that they don't adhere to those gender roles... in which case, it's usually because patriarchy determines that a man acting in a way that isn't stereotypically masculine is demeaning, because not being a man by whichever standards society has is demeaning. It's not something that specifically targets men because they're men, which would be the definition of misandry as a prejudice applied to men.
    You could say the same thing for many kinds of misogyny... that it doesn't target women specifically because they are women, but rather women who don't meet certain expectations.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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