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View Poll Results: Is Equality Possible?

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  • Yes

    8 50.00%
  • No

    8 50.00%
  • Apathy

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    A Mystery Jacques Le Paul's Avatar
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    Default Is Equality Possible?

    I saw a thread called Everyday Sexism Project recently. So I decided to start this thread for the sake of asking the bigger question. Is Equality Possible?

    Personally, I don't think it is.

    As the human perspective is inevitably different between people. As no two minds are the exact same.

    While I do think equality would be nice, considering things that people go through. I find it to be a delusion, but still none the less good to think about.

    Adding a poll to this, so you can vote your answer over posting it.

    For those who simply don't care about the idea, I added that apathy choice for you.

    -edit

    Essentially, do you think issues such as racism, sexism, and other kinds of perceived inequality/with differences(that can). Be destroyed, changed and removed completely by society?
    Always forward, never back!

    "I always love talking to people and hearing their story. People always have a good life story to tell ya know?"



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  2. #2
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    No, but we should strive for it.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  3. #3
    A Mystery Jacques Le Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    No, but we should strive for it.
    Your answer interests me, so I ask you.

    Why?
    Always forward, never back!

    "I always love talking to people and hearing their story. People always have a good life story to tell ya know?"



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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqcues Le Paul View Post
    Your answer interests me, so I ask you.

    Why?
    Total equality is an impossible ideal. It's implications are so far-reaching and nuanced that I really don't think it'll ever happen in this imperfect world. However, when we notice inequality, does that make it excusable? I argue no. We can always improve, and we should. Take U.S. history for example. Do African Americans experience total equality? No. Have we improved on that front? Absolutely. Same with women, workers, etc. It's like in math when you can keep coming closer to a point but you'll never reach it (man, what is that called? Hah, it's been a while). But I hope you understand my point.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  5. #5
    A Mystery Jacques Le Paul's Avatar
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    @nicolita

    Thank you for answering my question.

    This leads to another sadly, what is inequality?

    Who can say what it is and Why can they say it?
    Always forward, never back!

    "I always love talking to people and hearing their story. People always have a good life story to tell ya know?"



    My blog in regular blogs

  6. #6
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think you need to be more precise and define your terms.

    Are you talking about a good theory of complex equality which acknowledges minority-majority relationships, ontological society but subjective individuality and the rights of future generations? Or are you talking about uniformity and sameness, ie that things (or worse people) are equal when they can not be differentiated one from the other?

    I can live with the former, I think it is important and to be striven for in personal, cultural and structural changes to create a positive chain attack on what's wrong with the world as it is and can not be reconciled with the world to come, on the other hand a lot of people who think they are for the former are objectively bringing about the later and it is doing damage to the very idea of equality.

    There are important questions about what egalitarianism is for though, it shouldnt be levelling, envy or bitter retaliation for privileged elites having it too good for too long, it should be about eradicating servility, self-loathing and believing, honestly, totally, internalising subordination. You could ask why is that important?

    Wouldnt it be better if there was a compliant, obedient mass for the select few to direct? I believe that this is fundamentally not the case, its a total and utter dystopia of a lot of rich kids who arent used to thinking a lot, or who never acknowledge the legion of people who are necessary to make that illusion appear feasible?

    I've seen how from the smallest business to the highest levels of government being nothing other than a pushy, bully is all it takes to qualify you for promotion and privilege, less competent people rise through the ranks and then their subordinates carry the can for their mistakes or need to be extra competent in order to cope, at best their leadership is simply abscent or remiss or asleep at the wheel, at worst they are playing machavellian games with their subordinates, wrecking their heads, deliberately stressing them out to prove to themselves theories they have, conscious or unconscious, about people in general, sometimes about themselves (ever had a boss who has to prove continually to themselves that they are "better" than people working for them? Constantly meddling with the day to day work?).

    There's the Donning-Kruger (spelling) research into how routinely subordinates underestimate themselves while their superiors routinely overestimate themselves, I'm absolutely convinced that is a question of equality/inequality and its legacies.

    The whole idea of servility is anathema to democracy too, I firmly believe in a quote from Ibsen in which he says that a community should be a like a ship, everyone should be prepared to take the wheel, elitism by necessity implies leaders and followers, and a barrier between them, so that when the leader is abscent for any sort of time things collapse, eliminate the leader and the rank and file collapses into disarray. Anyone who's played any sort of sport will know that the team with one or two star players loses against the team which is perhaps overall, individually, less amazing but can play a great game together.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Total equality is an impossible ideal. It's implications are so far-reaching and nuanced that I really don't think it'll ever happen in this imperfect world. However, when we notice inequality, does that make it excusable? I argue no. We can always improve, and we should. Take U.S. history for example. Do African Americans experience total equality? No. Have we improved on that front? Absolutely. Same with women, workers, etc. It's like in math when you can keep coming closer to a point but you'll never reach it (man, what is that called? Hah, it's been a while). But I hope you understand my point.
    I think properly understood and defined its not impossible at all.

    The sort of logic that is at work in what you've posted there, especially the vague idea of imperfection, is what's been used in the past to support gross inequality which would seem simply absurd to us today.

    Consider if someone was able to travel back in time to the court of King Arthur and explain the process of a local or central government election? Mark Twain wrote a book about that and it was meant to make people think about how arguments supporting inequality in his day and age would appear absurd to people at a later date because people in his day thought the arguments popularly accepted in the past were stupid.

  8. #8
    A Mystery Jacques Le Paul's Avatar
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    @Lark

    I was attempting to not inject myself into this thread. As I'm attempting to get people's perspectives on things like this. Which is why I left the door open here, but personally I find myself rather apathetic towards things like this most of the time. The idea I had in mind when thinking of this thread however, is the former in what you had described. I do see what you mean though, by me being a bit too vague in what I was talking about in the thread.

    I'm going to edit the original post though, to clarify what this thread is about.
    Always forward, never back!

    "I always love talking to people and hearing their story. People always have a good life story to tell ya know?"



    My blog in regular blogs

  9. #9
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    It seems very possible to me, not insofar as everyone is the same, but more like everyone has the same horizons.

    Individuality I believe is a great thing. We can each play different roles to make society work and make it more interesting.

    Some people will be more talented than others or develop better skills, but that's okay, as long as we can accept that and realize our own promise.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqcues Le Paul View Post
    @Lark

    I was attempting to not inject myself into this thread. As I'm attempting to get people's perspectives on things like this. Which is why I left the door open here, but personally I find myself rather apathetic towards things like this most of the time. The idea I had in mind when thinking of this thread however, is the former in what you had described. I do see what you mean though, by me being a bit too vague in what I was talking about in the thread.

    I'm going to edit the original post though, to clarify what this thread is about.
    I just see those two ideas of equality as being the idea and the application and how they intersect is of interest.

    Incidentially I only know of one book which has been written in defence of inequality, which was written by the Thatcherite Keith Joseph in the UK.

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