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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Nobody ever said that flat-out discrimination was the only factor involved. Inequalities deriving from things like child care (influenced by biology, company maternity leaves, and social pressure) are still inequalities. You're arguing a straw man, and even there you fall flat, since even your 92% figure is still inequality.

    I do think it's funny that you use a (terrible) article to argue your straw man for you instead of bothering to do it yourself. Where's the thrill of the fight? Although I guess fighting an already-lost fight (due to being factually wrong) isn't that thrilling.
    Sweet buttery Christ...

    I was never arguing that the remaining 8% was not (partially) comprised of discrimination.

    Also. Kiss my ass.

  2. #182
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Always a pleasure discussing things with a classy Southern gentleman.
    -end of thread-

  3. #183
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    Bless your heart....

    You're just doing the best you can aren't you.

  4. #184
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    You are reading discrimination into occupation etc. where the authors clearly do not.
    Yes, they clearly did. I can't help you if you miss-read your own source.

    Your last image link, first (top) paragraph:

    "And, as we suggested above, including controls for occupation, industry, and union status may be questionable to the extent that they may be influenced by discrimination."

    Doing the exact same job with the same experience, level of education and other factors, a woman has been shown to make 91.6 cents on the dollar.

    Because that's what we're talking about about isn't it?
    This study is smarter than that, to draw that conclusion. Unlike some others....because what they're saying is, that controlling for x, y, z factors (above), the ratio is 91% BUT that controlling for those very factors, YOU MIGHT BE DIMINISHING THE EFFECT OF DISCRIMINATION.

    Some of that is, yes, due to discrimination. But only some of it is.
    And some swans are black. Only some of them. ???

    I am saying that the situation is not as dire as you are making it out to be, especially given how girls are substantially outperforming boys in education now....
    And then the smasher happens, to diminish women's creative potential - once they enter the workforce, after education, and stay there a while, gender discrimination in society widens and widens the inequality gap.

    And........we're back to full circle of what my original point was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    ^ @DiscoBiscuit

    Not outrage, just frustrated confusion at such an asinine, hazy question. But I guess I should learn to be more patient with such displays of logical contradictions. My bad.

    But, yeah, even with those parameters, the gender inequality within USA is there (especially as it reflects equal opportunity - or lacking thereof):

    - Wage inequality
    - Political empowerment (this should be right up your ally) - only 18.3% of the 113th Congress are women. It's male dominated like a freaking Brotherhood. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3285600.html
    - Reproductive Rights (especially with the high rate of teen pregnancy in the USA compared to other similar countries like UK, Canada, Australia)
    - Policies around maternity leave
    - Inequality in women represented in the fields of "hard sciences"

    To name a few. When institutionalized, systematic marginalization occurs, opportunity is limited, which encompasses (but is not limited to) limiting ones creative potential.

    Because all of a sudden, you are telling your women, Be all that you can be, BUT..........you're swimming upstream in this, this, that, that, this, that, area, and so forth.

    You're making my head hurt, like pulling teeth. Good night.

  5. #185
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    Might being the operative word in that sentence.

    We have no idea how to quantify the interplay between discrimination and those other factors or even be certain if that interplay exists.

    The study concludes stating that the gap is likely to decrease, and I agree with it.

  6. #186
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Might being the operative word in that sentence.
    After, ALLLLLLLL THAT, this is your final word?



    All right, then. I'm done. I was going to ask, that to be conservative (which should be right up your alley - which apparently is only true if it fullfills your agenda) - what you thought of a 80% gendered wage gap. But, after this conversation between us, I really don't care to know your opinion about it.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    After, ALLLLLLLL THAT, this is your final word?



    All right, then. I'm done. I was going to ask, that to be conservative (which should be right up your alley - which apparently is only true if it fullfills your agenda) - what you thought of a 80% gendered wage gap. But, after this conversation between us, I really don't care to know your opinion about it.
    The overall point being that the gap is decreasing, and has decreased a huge amount over the last half century.

    More to the point, it is predicted by those in the know to continue decreasing (if somewhat more slowly).

    EDIT - and since we can't be sure I'll just call it at 91%

  8. #188
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I did not read the entire thread just the post talking about one hand tied behind our species back. I assumed given the analogy that they were talking abt women's issues globally (especially considering the OP topic).

    That one hand tied behind its back analogy falls apart in the western world with regards to women.
    Perhaps, but my comment specifed "species", and I was referring to humanity as a whole, over millennia. Until recently even in the Western world, the female half of the population was excluded from most forms of education and most professions. In much of the world, this is still the case. Add policies of racial bias, like Apartheid in South Africa and our own history of slavery/Jim Crow, or class bias as in India's caste system, and the summarily excluded segment becomes even larger.

    All this is based on outright prohibitions. Exclusion from developing one's talents and contributing them to society based on economic conditions is another mechanism, and one worth examining, but not the point of my statement.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Perhaps, but my comment specifed "species", and I was referring to humanity as a whole, over millennia. Until recently even in the Western world, the female half of the population was excluded from most forms of education and most professions. In much of the world, this is still the case. Add policies of racial bias, like Apartheid in South Africa and our own history of slavery/Jim Crow, or class bias as in India's caste system, and the summarily excluded segment becomes even larger.

    All this is based on outright prohibitions. Exclusion from developing one's talents and contributing them to society based on economic conditions is another mechanism, and one worth examining, but not the point of my statement.
    OK.

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