User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 15 of 15

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Errm, I think the reason people think about deflationary spirals is because they've heard of the theory, which was developed by economists who never thought about bitcoin. It seems that deflationary spirals are only possible with a currency like the dollar that is printed or retracted by the federal reserve. People have lived with a gold standard for a lot longer than inflating currencies, and things worked out.
    wat

    The gold standard did not "work out". It caused deflation, and every country in the world abandoned it after a little thing called The Great Depression.

    The crux of the deflation argument is that in order for deflation to be a problem, you have to assume that bitcoin has already become an enormous success. It's a logical contradiction to think that deflation would prevent bitcoin from succeeding.
    I said nothing about 'success'. I don't know what you even mean by 'success'. It's a nebulous term, it doesn't mean anything in this context.

    For instance, you agree that deflation encourages people to hold bitcoins.
    No, I said hoarding Bitcoins causes deflation.

    Then bitcoin becomes a success. Everyone has them. Everyone will accept them as currency.
    No, if people are hoarding them then very few people have them...

    If they encourage too much hoarding, then people would lose faith in bitcoins, and then hoard less, right?
    No, if people are hoarding them and the value deflates they'll just keep holding them, speculating that the value will eventually rise back to where it was. People tend to not take deliberate losses.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Posts
    731

    Default

    Blech. This is why I don't enjoy these types of discussions, especially with NTs. They tend to resort to being rude and condescending. I also get kinda lazy about having to explain my position when I'm pretty sure it is pointless.

    First off, I wouldn't say the great depression was due to deflation caused by the gold standard. I would say it was more an issue of government involvement. If you want me to paint out a long drawn out map . . . I will. But the broad brushstrokes is look at the 1907 breakdown and compare it to the great depression. Also consider that Canada suffered no banking failures during the great depression as they did not suffer from the same unit banking laws. Anyway, you get the idea as to what my position is.

    I would define success as the point at which demand for bitcoins creates the situation of the finite number of bitcoins that can be created being created.

    Basically, without mining, once the max number of bitcoins has been created, the system basically locks up and becomes worthless. This to me seems like strong enough incentive for people to continue to use their bitcoins.
    "My comrades and my beloved, upon your way you shall meet men with hoofs; give them your wings. And men with horns; give them wreaths of laurel. And men with claws; give them petals for fingers. And men with forked tongues; give them honey words." --Kahlil Gibran, The Garden of The Prophet

  3. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Blech. This is why I don't enjoy these types of discussions, especially with NTs. They tend to resort to being rude and condescending. I also get kinda lazy about having to explain my position when I'm pretty sure it is pointless.

    First off, I wouldn't say the great depression was due to deflation caused by the gold standard. I would say it was more an issue of government involvement. If you want me to paint out a long drawn out map . . . I will. But the broad brushstrokes is look at the 1907 breakdown and compare it to the great depression. Also consider that Canada suffered no banking failures during the great depression as they did not suffer from the same unit banking laws. Anyway, you get the idea as to what my position is.

    I would define success as the point at which demand for bitcoins creates the situation of the finite number of bitcoins that can be created being created.

    Basically, without mining, once the max number of bitcoins has been created, the system basically locks up and becomes worthless. This to me seems like strong enough incentive for people to continue to use their bitcoins.
    Its just another attempt by libertards to resurrect the sort of pre-depression era privilege they've read about and think they could enjoy.

    Enough said then.

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    Gosh, ecomomics and money handling is a subject I have no dang control or knowledge of. It's all dynamic, like there's so many people and probabilities, which weighing out to make working predictions just is beyond me.

    That reminds me of what a great sage once told me about how I have a very rich collection of knowledge, but that much of it is as of now useless and can't add to the growing potentials of life.

    If you have a lot of money or knowledge, but don't spend or use it, then what good is it!? That's my very simple opinion to add within the great mixer.
    The people with the vastest fortunes spend the least and then the money circulating the economy shrinks, its pretty simple even at their most profligate one individual or one family will not spend beyond a certain limit, whereas complete communities and nations and states, even if they are not profligate, spending will amount to more money circulating in the economy than depending upon individual well moneyed consumers.

    Its always been curious to me that while modernism has convinced people its within the powers or means of science to control pretty much anything within certain predictable limits besides the economy, it remains the domain of voodoo, weird and unpredictable mysterious forces with which no one dare meddle.

    The reality is that that's propaganda, incredibly effective propaganda, which is little more than a system of rationalisations to excuse very wealthy elites in their own selfish behaviour which is having consequences for everyone, presently for everyone besides themselves but I am sure that eventually it will have consequences for them also, whether that is simply going to be people refusing to buy snake oil like "too big to fail", at least in the shape it has been rolled out globally, or something which could be more of a paradigm shift (which I doubt) remains to be seen.

    If there existed an independent media, anywhere in the world, which could report with exactitude to an educated populace, which I dont believe exists either, there could be a difference, instead there is a solid stream of trivial information or real information is trivialised into a brand of infotainment or hopelessly distorted to conform to the popular ideologies which people have settled upon, almost all of which have been engineered to protect wealthy interests first, redirect attention from these same wealthy interests first and encourage the pity the millionaire mindset.

    To be honest I'm tired of it, if you're reading this and you're tired of it too say so, the millionaires are doing alright and the game is about as rigged as it comes already, no sense trying to make it better still for those people and their off spring.

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The people with the vastest fortunes spend the least and then the money circulating the economy shrinks, its pretty simple even at their most profligate one individual or one family will not spend beyond a certain limit, whereas complete communities and nations and states, even if they are not profligate, spending will amount to more money circulating in the economy than depending upon individual well moneyed consumers.
    Okay, so a lot of rich people horde money and don't use it, making it even harder to distribute the resources in equal proportions.

    Its always been curious to me that while modernism has convinced people its within the powers or means of science to control pretty much anything within certain predictable limits besides the economy, it remains the domain of voodoo, weird and unpredictable mysterious forces with which no one dare meddle.
    Exactly, I don't get economics in part because I can't see the underlying currents hidden from view or where they are going. That's how time is, as there's constant change, but it's difficult to see and always in motion.

    The reality is that that's propaganda, incredibly effective propaganda, which is little more than a system of rationalisations to excuse very wealthy elites in their own selfish behaviour which is having consequences for everyone, presently for everyone besides themselves but I am sure that eventually it will have consequences for them also, whether that is simply going to be people refusing to buy snake oil like "too big to fail", at least in the shape it has been rolled out globally, or something which could be more of a paradigm shift (which I doubt) remains to be seen.
    Wow, rich people are often selfish and only advocate their own agendas? What a startling revelation!

    If there existed an independent media, anywhere in the world, which could report with exactitude to an educated populace, which I dont believe exists either, there could be a difference, instead there is a solid stream of trivial information or real information is trivialised into a brand of infotainment or hopelessly distorted to conform to the popular ideologies which people have settled upon, almost all of which have been engineered to protect wealthy interests first, redirect attention from these same wealthy interests first and encourage the pity the millionaire mindset.
    Ya, the biggest fear someone with a lot of money and greed could have is to lose it all.

    To be honest I'm tired of it, if you're reading this and you're tired of it too say so, the millionaires are doing alright and the game is about as rigged as it comes already, no sense trying to make it better still for those people and their off spring.
    Frankly, I was a bit bored by your message, but I get your basic idea of this game being stacked for the elites. Why even bother worrying about it if we can't control it? We might as well just start building philosophical theories of a utpoia or justice and such if this treachery is to be undone!

    "Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment." - Nikola Tesla

Similar Threads

  1. Blockchain and Bitcoin
    By Beorn in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 12-01-2017, 03:21 PM
  2. The Banned and The Damned
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 07:12 PM
  3. Kicking and screaming
    By rivercrow in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-25-2007, 10:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO