User Tag List

12311 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 180

  1. #1
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default A hypothetical question about Civil Unions.

    Assume for a moment that civil unions are legally equivalent to marriage, and that the only difference between the two is the name.

    Keeping in mind that Civil Unions are open to hetero folks. Who if they wished, could get CU'd as an objection to the exclusion of gay folks in Marriage.

    Why then argue to call it marriage?

    EDIT - I really didn't want to post this, as I know I'm going to take insane amounts of shit for it, but I really want an answer to that question.

  2. #2
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Assume for a moment that black water fountains are legally equivalent to white water fountains, and that the only difference between the two is the name.

    Keeping in mind that black water fountains are open to white folks. Who if they wished, could use the black fountain as an objection to the exclusion of black folks from the white fountains.

    Why then argue to call them all water fountains?

  3. #3
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Assume for a moment that black water fountains are legally equivalent to white water fountains, and that the only difference between the two is the name.

    Keeping in mind that black water fountains are open to white folks. Who if they wished, could use the black fountain as an objection to the exclusion of black folks from the white fountains.

    Why then argue to call them all water fountains?
    That's a touching anecdote, but not really an answer.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,128

    Default

    Why indeed? A toadstool by any other name...

  5. #5
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    That's a touching anecdote, but not really an answer.
    Sure it is-- that's why people are arguing against CU as a solution to the gay marriage issue. Because it effectively sets up a separate-but-equal situation.

  6. #6
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,907

    Default

    This question is as good as the reverse. If they are identical, why do you need heterosexual ones called marriage and homosexual ones not called marriage? There must be some reason you want that word for heterosexual relations alone.

    I can't see any reason for the difference except to symbolically say that heterosexual partnerships are somehow more special or sacred than homosexual ones. If there were really nothing to the name, I don't anyone would give a shit about the definition.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #7
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Sure it is-- that's why people are arguing against CU as a solution to the gay marriage issue. Because it effectively sets up a separate-but-equal situation.
    But segregation wasn't equal. And in my hypothetical above, I stated that CU's are functionally equivalent with Marriage, and that you can start a movement to get heteros to get CU'd as a protest against the exclusion of gay folks. Which I think would be quite popular among the New York Times set.

    And you don't have to call it a civil union, you can come up with whatever you want except marriage.

    I am surprised that folks are desperate to adopt the nomenclature of an institution that excludes, or has excluded them in the past.

    So would a rose by any other name not smell quite so sweet?

  8. #8
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,804

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    But segregation wasn't equal. And in my hypothetical above, I stated that CU's are functionally equivalent with Marriage, and that you can start a movement to get heteros to get CU'd as a protest against the exclusion of gay folks. Which I think would be quite popular among the New York Times set.

    And you don't have to call it a civil union, you can come up with whatever you want except marriage.

    I am surprised that folks are desperate to adopt the nomenclature of an institution that excludes, or has excluded them in the past.

    So would a rose by any other name not smell quite so sweet?
    This isn't about equality as much as it's about acceptance.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #9
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    But segregation wasn't equal. And in my hypothetical above, I stated that CU's are functionally equivalent with Marriage, and that you can start a movement to get heteros to get CU'd as a protest against the exclusion of gay folks. Which I think would be quite popular among the New York Times set.

    And you don't have to call it a civil union, you can come up with whatever you want except marriage.

    I am surprised that folks are desperate to adopt the nomenclature of an institution that excludes, or has excluded them in the past.

    So would a rose by any other name not smell quite so sweet?
    It's the same thing, and it's very condescending to tell people that they are equal but cannot have equal names for things. You could use it with lots of (important) things. E.g 'Adoption'. How bout we all have 'Adoption' but people who are over fourty can only call it 'Foster Care' when infact it is still exactly adoption, just the name is different

    You forget of the social stigma and the connotations of being unmarried and in a civil partnership. Ok you could argue that that's other peoples problem but it still exists. But it's more about stopping homophobic differentiation.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #10
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,907

    Default

    Seriously. The question is; why is it so important for the word marriage to be applied only to a man and a woman?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJ - Question about your inner monolouge
    By Shinzon in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 03-13-2009, 12:40 AM
  2. 3 questions about MBTI
    By alcea rosea in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-10-2007, 08:49 AM
  3. Quick question about a concert venue...
    By Cindyrella in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-22-2007, 01:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO