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  1. #61
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The physical difference is in the experience of a child who is denied a parent of one sex or the other. Gay marriage is a state endorsement of gay parenting.

    You don't think there's anything unique you impart to your children by being a woman as opposed to a man?

    I just want to give children equal access to parents of both sexes.

    How is equal access wrong?
    Nothing is wrong with access to two gendered parents. If you limit gay parenting, however, you are mandating that two sex access by blocking other options. (And what of divorce?)


    While I don't find it so hard to believe that people mirror the traits of their parents and can relate to them based on gender to some degree, overwhelmingly, I think parents can fill in these gaps by talking to their kids about whatever those differences are, consulting books, educators, having other role models around, etc. Something which two gendered or single parents don't always do anyway.

    Not everyone is a good parent and I'd imagine the greatest factor effecting child welfare would be the conditions of the relationship rather than whether it's between two genders or one.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm not defending the virtue of dysfunctional families, I'm defending the virtue of families. I believe a dysfunctional family together is better off than a dysfunctional family apart.
    I'm not discounting the virtue of families, although we probably define the concept differently. The alternative to a dysfunctional family together is not necessarily a dysfunctional family apart, but often two functional families together, apart from each other. Let a sane person choose which one is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You can pity my experience all you want, but I have seen the ability of broken relationships to bring forth fruit through perseverance alone.
    I pity you for your mindset, not for your experience. I am not against taking responsibility or making sacrifices either, but I am against maintaining institutions that should not be maintained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This really is a fundemental difference in our philisophy which I think is well examined in this article that analyzes Milan Kundera's writing along with Nietzche.
    It has nothing to do with our differences.

  3. #63
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Oh nonsense disco, your transparency is as subtle as a tribal dance.

    Also, you failed.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #64
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I was trying to present the best form of the argument, and actually came to a conclusion with that.

    The rest of you animals wanted to scrap, and I like taking on several at a time.
    Magic Poriferan stripped you naked pretty fast. I appreciate that you stayed around afterwards so that we all could get a look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Not everyone is a good parent and I'd imagine the greatest factor effecting child welfare would be the conditions of the relationship rather than whether it's between two genders or one.
    Which, incidentally, is what studies show and only Beorn chooses to disagree with.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Oh nonsense disco, your transparency is as subtle as a tribal dance.

    Also, you failed.
    Got your knickers in a twist enough to come to my thread to try and convince everyone how pathetic I am.

    If you aren't making enemies you aren't doing it right.

  6. #66
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Got your knickers in a twist enough to come to my thread to try and convince everyone how pathetic I am.

    If you aren't making enemies you aren't doing it right.
    Actually i presented an idea earlier on which you were not interested in replying to. That you are replying to the more recent post bolsters my theory.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  7. #67
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm pretty much with Magic on this. My first choice on this issue would be to disconnect religious and civil marriage altogether- make civil marriage available to all and then allow those who wish to have their marriage blessed/recognized religiously to do so in their own faith. That way religious institutions could marry or refuse to marry whomever they choose but the same civil institution of marriage (the legally binding one) would be available to all. I doubt that's going to happen, though.
    yep yep me too.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #68
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Actually i presented an idea earlier on which you were not interested in replying to. That you are replying to the more recent post bolsters my theory.
    yep. many, many reasonable posts were ignored in favor of contentious ones.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    yep. many, many reasonable posts were ignored in favor of contentious ones.
    Fortunately, one contentious one was also (mostly) ignored.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The physical difference is in the experience of a child who is denied a parent of one sex or the other. Gay marriage is a state endorsement of gay parenting.

    You don't think there's anything unique you impart to your children by being a woman as opposed to a man?

    I just want to give children equal access to parents of both sexes.

    How is equal access wrong?
    Why wouldn't the state endorse gay parenting? It's not like there's a surplus of good homes for children. As long as incidents like this (see below) happen, you're gonna have a really hard time convincing me that allowing gay couples to parent is a bad idea.

    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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